2002 XLT 4.6L 4WD brake line stuff | Page 2 | Ford Explorer Forums

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2002 XLT 4.6L 4WD brake line stuff

If one of the smaller fittings goes to the front, I can only guess they had some concern that someone might get it reversed with the other front wheel line.

Yours does look like much more of a burden to change, my '98 had the ABS module up where I could easily get to it, without all those curves, no bracket or union either, just straight to each wheel with the fewest bends needed to route it there... besides the 3 loops in each line I put in right before the ABS module, to replace the flex sections.
 



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I am running into a bit of an issue with the lines and fittings that come out of the ABS. The smaller of the fittings is M10-1.0 bubble flare on 3/16 line. The flare nut is easy enough to find but even if I reuse the original fitting, I don't have a tool to do the bubble flare. The original fitting is more rusted on the hex than I would like anyway.

I know that, in theory, you can do a bubble flare with a double flare tool but I think it makes more sense to just get one of these,

SUR&R BSCE324 24" 3/16 NiCu Brake Line M10x1.0 Bubble Flare ($6.99)

This will give me a nice bubble flare and fitting and I can cut the other end to add the double flare and 3/8-24 flare nut to attach to the rest of the line. Does that make sense?

The other two fittings are M12-1.0 on 3/16 line. I have not been able to find a pre-fabricated 3/16 brake line with M12-1.0 bubble flare fittings. I almost despair anymore in trying to use any kind of search engine to find a specific part that I am looking for. I can search all day on "M12-1.0 bubble flare brake line" and never see any such thing. It seems I will only ever see what companies are paying to have me see, regardless of what I actually am looking for. Perhaps this just means that there is no such part, but I would rather be told that there are no search results than be given thousands of irrelevant results to waste my time wading through.

If I were to buy a couple more M10-1.0 bubble flare lines like the above and then separately buy M12-1.0 bubble flare nuts for 3/16 line,

4x SUR&R BR240 M12-1.0 Bubble Flare Tube Nut Fittings 3/16 Line ($11.99)

could I cut the 3/16 line, remove the M10-1.0 fittings, and replace them with the M12-1.0 fittings?

This would be about $20 for the lines and fittings out of the ABS, so is allot less than getting another tool to make the bubble flairs. Additionally, I would know that the bubble flairs were well made.

If anyone knows where to get a pre-fabricated 3/16 NiCu line with bubble flares and M12-1.0 flare nut fittings I would appreciate the link. I think that 1 30"-40" line would work best because I could cut it in half to make the 2 lines I need. That is not necessarily the most cost effective solution in all cases though.

LMHmedchem
 






Yes if I understand your intentions correctly, you could buy two lines, or one and cut it, then flare one end yourself. Personally I would try to reuse the fittings because I'm cheap, maybe just sand off the corrosion on a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface like a piece of glass or tabletop, but I can't appreciate how bad yours are. Mine weren't bad at all, especially the important part, the amount of threading that mates with the module.

Another thing you can do since this little run of line wouldn't be too hard to install as a pre-bent Ford part, is try to track down the Ford part #. It's probably discontinued, but someone might have new old stock of it, a parts supply company or ebay. I already checked White Bear Lake Ford and they don't have it, and the crude picture (drawing) they showed, I couldn't even be sure if it was the correct part. Ford really needs to step up their game and provide real, high-res pictures of parts instead of something that looks like a grade school kid drew it with a magic marker.
 






Why not just convert the bubble flair over to whatever you have available locally?
 






Why not just convert the bubble flair over to whatever you have available locally?
Do you mean to use an adapter?

The adapter for the M10-1.0 port is easy enough to find,

SUR&R BR505 3/8"-24 Inverted Female to M10-1.0 Bubble Male 3/16" Line Size ($3.33)

but I can't seem to find an adapter for the M12-1.0 ports. That should be something like an M12-1.0 male bubble flare to 3/8-24 female inverted flare adapter but a search on this only reveals a few brass fittings like,

Brass Adapter, Female(3/8-24 Inverted), Male(M12x1.0 Bubble) ($4.55)

I would prefer plated steel but I guess brass would be ok.

Do you have suggestions for the adapters? I really am having trouble searching for this stuff. It seems like sites are going out of their way to make it difficult to find the products that they are trying to sell. AllStar has literally dozens of prefabricated brake lines listed on Amazon, but none of they have any specs at all. There is nothing that says how long the tubing is, what the tubing is made of, how it's flared, or what size or type of fittings are on the ends. How on earth do they expect anyone to know which of all their lines they are supposed to order? That seems like an absolutely idiotic way to try to conduct business.

It is supposed to be in the single digits again tomorrow but I guess I can go around to some of the local stores and see if they have anything in stock that might work.

I should mention that I already have some 3/16 NiCu brake line and a variety of 3/8-24 inverted flare fittings that I intend to use to fabricate most of what I need. I also have some flex lines and a reasonable 3/8-24 inverted flare tool. I am just trying to figure out the last few things I need.

As always, thanks for the input.

LMHmedchem
 






You can concert it to m10x1 to match the other line?
 






Alright, I will see what I can find locally tomorrow.

If I can't find anything around here, these might work,

10x 4LIFETIMELINES LTNA27SS 3/8-24 Inverted F to M12x1.0 Bubble M Stainless Steel Adapter ($12.99)
10x 4LIFETIMELINES LTNA25SS 3/8-24 Inverted F to M10x1.0 Bubble M Stainless Steel Adapter ($10.99)

With free 2 day shipping from Walmart this is pretty cost effective. I can install these to the ABS ports and then continue from there by fabricating NiCu lines with the 3/8-24 inverted flare fittings I already have. It's too bad that these only come in a 10 pack but I can probably sell the 17 fittings I don't need. I can get brass fittings as singles but they cost quite a bit each.

LMHmedchem
 






I did go ahead and order these,

10x 4LIFETIMELINES LTNA27SS 3/8-24 Inverted F to M12x1.0 Bubble M Stainless Steel Adapter ($13.99)
10x 4LIFETIMELINES LTNA25SS 3/8-24 Inverted F to M10x1.0 Bubble M Stainless Steel Adapter ($12.99)

Getting them from ebay instead of Walmart cost $3 more but I had some left over balance on a gift card that I used. I will install these to the ports on the ABS and then all of the flares and fittings will be the same. I will make new 3/16" lines with inverted flares and 3/8-24 flare nuts that will fit into these adapters. I will have enough adapters to do the lines from the master cylinder to the ABS as well, but for now I plan to leave the ones that are there because they are not leaking.

I have 25' of NiCu brake line. Does anyone know if that will be enough to replace all of the lines?

What is generally used for brake line clips? There are quite a few styles. I haven't come across any on my truck yet. I expect I will start to see some when I get to taking all of the old lines off.

Another storm starting tomorrow so I won't be starting any time in the next few days at least.

LMHmedchem
 






Reuse the existing clips. If they start breaking from taking the old line off, cut the line out of the way at both ends and leave it in place, wire tie the new line to the old, a redundant # of times so that if one tie fails, the rest are still plenty to keep it from vibrating.

If you want to get fancy, there are several styles of clips, where you re/use an existing hole or drill one for it. Choose what seems most suitable for each location or based on price. You could even make your own... thick sheet aluminum with chamfered contact-edges. Some of them seem ridiculously expensive for what they are, just little blocks of plastic or bent metal tabs.

 






Flaring can be tough. I always put together a kit so I don’t have to do any, and if I do it’s just a single. If you use a pipe cutter flaring is less successful, at least in my experience. I always use a skinny cut off wheel.

Well it turns out that I am not immediately brilliant at making flares. I followed the instructions and some videos I watched for the specific tool that I have. The process was simple enough, but the flare didn't look very good. The inside, where it mates with the seat in the matching fitting, looked fine. The hole was in the center and the cone around the hole looked even and smooth. The outside looked more twisted than pressed.

I thought that I could just practice some, but I didn't know what I could do differently than on the first attempt. It is not likely useful to become very good at making bad fittings. I tried using both a very small pipe cutter and a Dremel with a cut-off wheel, but both turned out the same. It was very hard to get a square-ended cut with the Dremel and it needed allot of cleaning up. I used a very small round riffler file to de-burr the inside and the flat side of a small half-round riffler file to de-burr the outside.

I tried turning the punch allot more slowly and that did improve things some. Thinking about it overnight, I suspected that the twisted appearance was an indication that the punch was binding on the end of the tubing and twisting it, instead of just compressing it. One the next attempt, I used allot more of the die lubricant on the punch and spread it evenly with a small brush. This made a significant improvement, but the flare looked slightly crushed on two sides as the lip was a little taller and flatter on two sides than the other two.

I thought that the crushing may be from the tube cutter working on a soft metal so I tried again with the Dremel. That attempt also looked crushed so it wasn't the cutting procedure. The only other variable I could think of was the tightness of the 10mm bolts that hold the clam shell die holder together. I had them tightened all the way down so that the clam shell was completely closed. In one of the videos I watched, it didn't look like it was tightened that much so I tightened it a bit less leaving a very small gap between the two halves of the die holder. The next fitting turned out looking correct. It was not crushed or twisted. On my next attempt, I will use a torque wrench so I can tell exactly how tight to make the 10mm bolts for best results.

I think that this tool would work better if the end of the punch rotated freely so that the pressing threads could turn while the tip of the punch remained stationary against the end of the tubing. The would eliminate the need for the lubricant and I think give better and more easily reproducible results. If the clam shell is not supposed to be completely closed then there needs to be an easier way to determine when it is closed enough. I actually thought about opening it even more so that the tubing would rotate with the punch as it turned, which would be the same as the end of the punch turning. That would not be practical for long sections of tubing and the die might not be closed enough to give a correct flare so I didn't bother as of yet. I think that this tool may work better on steel tubing that will not be so vulnerable to crushing and twisting. It might be helpful to have a tool that you could jam into the end of the tubing after cutting to make sure it was completely round before flaring.

If anyone has any suggestions about all of this I would appreciate hearing.

LMHmedchem
 






Maybe the tool is off spec and tightening the clamshell bolts does crush the tube too much. I'd only tighten it enough to keep the tube from backing out while flaring it. I don't understand what you stated about allowing the tubing to rotate, seems like it would not work at all if that loose and backing out the rear of the tool.

Before I started putting the line on the vehicle, I put the end in a bench vice, with grooved soft wood in the jaws to hold it while I filed the end, seemed easier to get a good result than holding the tubing in my hand, being able to put more attention on keeping the file level, but then once the line was strung on the vehicle, had to just do without the vice.

Lube, I'd not try to avoid using plenty but I wonder if your die has a rough surface that needs slightly polished? I suppose there "might" also be the option of returning the tool for a refund and trying another one.

Besides the above it's hard for me to get a mental image of what to do otherwise. The flare can be "slightly" imperfect as long as it doesn't take excessive nut torque to reform to seal against the mating part.

There might be something else I'm forgetting. I don't remember if it was someone posting a comment about this Eastwood or it was some other tool, but I vaguely recall someone mentioning something about they either needed to insert the line slightly less than butting up against the positioning bolt, or possibly it was that the positioning bolt needed to be slightly loose so the tubing slid in further. I'll try to find that info but don't hold your breath, my memory of this is very vague. Edit: I looked around and cannot find that info, but it is something else to try.

EDIT2: I found that info. The depth setting bolt is arguably, slightly too short on some batches of these. If working steel line it doesn't matter but with softer CuNi line, the little excess material length can cause the back side of the flare to buckle if the depth bolt is too short. The fix is insert the line with approx 0.04" gap between the line and the depth bolt, use a shim on the end of the bolt, or insert a drill bit or piece of wire, etc into the sight hole to form this gap. In the picture below, the sight hole is shown with the arrow pointing to it. This is only needed if the bolt is a bit short, I'd practice on a scrap piece of brake line without any extra spacing before defaulting to using an extra gap.


Here's the instructions for my Eastwood:

Eastwood Flare Tool Instructions.png
 






I read somewhere that the only way to make sure that you get a completely pristine and perfect flare is to forget to put the fitting on the line first. I guess that is likely quite true.

I will keep practicing and see if I improve. I will also try changing the position of the line in the die holder a bit and see if that helps.

In the reading I have done about this tool, bad flares generally seem to be blamed on poor quality brake line. I am using AGS, which I would not consider poor quality. AGS is not, however, the most expensive brand so I could look at switching to one of the brands I have seen recommended by other users of this tool. The Summit Racing tubing seems to be quite popular, though I don't know who makes it.

SUR&R BREZ100 UltraBEND Brake Line 3/16" OD x 25' ($39 +ship)
Summit Racing SUM-220216-25 Copper/Nickel Alloy Tubing 3/16" OD x 25' ($32 +ship)
Jegs 555-635800 NiCopp Tubing Coil 3/16" OD x 25' ($32 +ship)

LMHmedchem
 






I used my Eastwood on AGS Polyarmour Steel line for the front to rear brake line run, because wanted the vehicle operational ASAP and that's what a local Autozone had, then later got CuNi off Amazon for the front. Seemed to do fine on the AGS, looked good, didn't require excessive nut torque to seal.
 






I happened to have some 3/16 plain steel brake line sections with 3/8-24 IF tube nuts. I cut one of these in half, cleaned it up, and tried a flare with the Titan tool. The flare came out very nice, not quite perfect, but very nice. I tried again with the other half of the line and it also came out nice. This makes me believe that the issue is with the AGS NiCopp line. I think that the plain steel lines I used are also AGS, so that is odd.

I wouldn't use plan steel around here (unless I want to replace it next week) so I am waiting for some NiCu line. I decided to order from Summit racing since I have read allot of posts from users of the Titan tool that the Summit Racing SUM-220216-25 brake line worked every time for them.

I will see how it goes for me,

LMHmedchem
 






Today I received some new brake line and I had no problems making flares with it. I have read many posts about the Titan flare tool not working well with inexpensive NiCu brake line and I guess that was my issue as well. Most of those posts recommended Summit Racing SUM-220216.

I used this brake line,

SUR&R BREZ100 UltraBEND Brake Line 3/16" OD x 25'' ($36.65, shipping included)

instead of the Summit Racing SUM-220216 because it is also highly rated and I happened to have an ebay gift card.

Since the SUR&R from ebay had shipping included, it was almost $10 cheaper for 25' than the Summit Racing product. This is a rare case where RockAuto didn't have the best price on a part, partly because of shipping cost.

I was able to make about 6 flares in a row today that all came out very nice. That is after almost 30 failures with the AGS NiCoop line. There was none of the twisting and deformation that I saw with the AGS. The flares did have a thin ridge of metal around the end of the flare which was annoying. Use of a rimming and de-burring tool did not make a difference with this. I don't think this will affect the seal as it is not on the mating surface but I filled it off with a small riffler file just in case. I was able to get the same quality flares cutting the tubing with a pipe cutter or a Dremel, though I find it much easier to get a clean and square cut with the pipe cutter.

The Titan tool definitely did not work well for me with the AGS CNC3 NiCopp line. I would normally consider AGS to be a good company that makes quality products, so I am not sure what the issue was. It just didn't work at all. I was able to make good flares with AGS plain steel line, so who knows.

I should be able to make some progress on this now if the weather will cooperate some.

LMHmedchem
 






I wonder if anyone here has a diagram of how the hard brake lines run around the frame. In particular, the long line that runs along the drivers side to the back is a bit confusing.

Most of the line runs along the outside of the frame under the runner board and that part will not be a problem. I don't see exactly how the line is supposed to run from the outside of the frame along the side, back to the inside of the frame at the front and back where it fits with the flex lines. The line bends are a bit complicated at both the front and back, so I'm not sure how I'm going to be able to pre-bend the line and then fish it through to the wheels. I thought I understood where it was going when I removed it but now I'm not so sure.

I thought there would be a reference for this but I am not finding anything. If anyone could snap a picture or so of where the line disappears and reappears, that would be a big help.

There has been some better weather lately so I am finished with the front lines and the lines from the ABS to the bracket. I can probably finish in another day or so if I can figure out where things go. I should have taken some pictures but I thought I understood the setup and thought I could just follow the brackets. If it gets too awkward I can always cut it and put into some unions so I can install it in three pieces. Even that will not help if I don't know where it's supposed to go.

LMHmedchem
 






I can't help on a 2002. On my '98 the entire front to rear run was inside the frame, I could easily follow it with my fingers and the only annoyance was having to take the tank brush guard and a cross-brace off to do so.

Is it possible that you were looking at the fuel line and thinking it was the brake line? I really don't know, but you shouldn't need to pre-bend the line at all, can literally just start fishing it in and bending as you go along, even if you used the steel line opposed to CuNi. Remember, the bends don't have to be exactly like they were, just get from point A to B while staying out of the way of everything and using the frame for protection for the majority of the run length. Well, it's also good to secure it often enough, and/or route in such a way that there's no long runs between each attachment point, with enough flex to vibrate against the frame or anything else.
 






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