2020 Explorer Changed Brakes and now caliper is not working bunch of faults

[Fanatic1074]

Changed the front brakes on the truck all went well. No issues with the replacement however now the front right caliper is not even working (pistons were moving fine when i replaced brakes) Its like something has shut off brake fluid to that caliper. Im getting a ton of errors on the dash and brake light as well as this weird lightning bolt type light on the upper right of the instrument cluster.

Anyone have any idea what i need to do from here?

 

[themishmosh]

The manual says tobput it in maintenance mode...even for the fronts. at this point, maybe pull negative terminal of the battery for a few minutes and let modules reboot

 

[Fanatic1074]

The manual says tobput it in maintenance mode...even for the fronts. at this point, maybe pull negative terminal of the battery for a few minutes and let modules reboot

Yea i did try that last night. Left it disconnected all night, woke up to the same issue.

 

[Fanatic1074]

Update* So the entire reason i started this is because like a bunch of other people my CV axles were both leaking due to the clamps being too tight from the facotry. I did find that when replacing the CV Axle on the driver side i broke the ABS sensor. It sticks out of the hub and i didnt notice and must have hit it with the Axle.

I ordered an ABS sensor and its supposed to be in this afternoon. Hopefully this will take care of it.

Ill post an update after i get it replaced.

 

[Fanatic1074]

Well ABS sensor is replaced now my abs light is off but still have the other faults. And it still seems to be blocking the front right caliper from applying the brakes. If i hit the brake hard i lock up the driver and the passenger caliper never engages at all. Worked perfectly fine before this.

 

[J_C]

Is it possible that you need to clear the codes with a scan tool? I mean to start with, I'd use the scan tool to pull the trouble codes and go from there.

 

[Fanatic1074]

Is it possible that you need to clear the codes with a scan tool? I mean to start with, I'd use the scan tool to pull the trouble codes and go from there.

Yes it is. I do have a BT ODBII adapter that i can check codes and clear them However all its picking up is the ABS code which is gone now. I think i need a more advanced tool.

The thing that's making no sense is why is it acting like the right side caliper is seized? Is the master cylinder in these smart (or stupid) enough to shut off calipers?

Honestly im frustrated about this. I understand the ABS sensors and etc but WTF is the point of this? seems like its just a way to make you go to the dealer.

Thanks for any input!

 

[J_C]

My best guess would be that it's not seeing the ABS sensor speed signal so the ABS module is thinking the wheel is seized (locked up, skidding, etc not spinning) and activating to keep the caliper from engaging. If there's no longer a code or dash light for it, then the ABS module seems to "see" the sensor to the point where it can at least get a (resistance?) reading from it to know it's there, and if it does that, then it would seem that the wiring to it is intact.

Where does this sensor mount? I'm guessing in the knuckle, then senses the half shaft rotation? Is it possible that there is rust buildup, placing the sensor too far away from whichever type of reluctor ring (or magnets) it needs to sense spinning? Is it possible the ring itself is contaminated with rust, or if in a hub, that the hub is failing and flinging grease with metallic particles in it, on the ring to foul creating the signal?

The latter happened to my '98, but it didn't have all the ABS features that a '20 has for traction control, so it manifested itself differently (at least in the beginning, and then I'd repaired it before it got worse) in actuating ABS on the wheel so the caliper wasn't engaging, only when single digit MPH, coming to a stop. When the wheel is spinning so much slower, the signal is weaker to begin with.

Some scan tools may be able to see the wheel speed sensor signal in real-time. I know the BAFX brand ELM327 OBD2 dongle that I used on my '98 can, but it's not even canbus, and yet, canbus actually means broader array of modern scan tools and dongles should be able to read the speed sensor data, as long as they are compatible with the Ford specific code sets, outside the OBD2 code sets. This is where Forscan app comes into play, at least for my '98. The '14 has never had any codes set (knock on wood!).

 

[Fanatic1074]

My best guess would be that it's not seeing the ABS sensor speed signal so the ABS module is thinking the wheel is seized (locked up, skidding, etc not spinning) and activating to keep the caliper from engaging. If there's no longer a code or dash light for it, then the ABS module seems to "see" the sensor to the point where it can at least get a (resistance?) reading from it to know it's there, and if it does that, then it would seem that the wiring to it is intact.

Where does this sensor mount? I'm guessing in the knuckle, then senses the half shaft rotation? Is it possible that there is rust buildup, placing the sensor too far away from whichever type of reluctor ring (or magnets) it needs to sense spinning? Is it possible the ring itself is contaminated with rust, or if in a hub, that the hub is failing and flinging grease with metallic particles in it, on the ring to foul creating the signal?

The latter happened to my '98, but it didn't have all the ABS features that a '20 has for traction control, so it manifested itself differently (at least in the beginning, and then I'd repaired it before it got worse) in actuating ABS on the wheel so the caliper wasn't engaging, only when single digit MPH, coming to a stop. When the wheel is spinning so much slower, the signal is weaker to begin with.

Some scan tools may be able to see the wheel speed sensor signal in real-time. I know the BAFX brand ELM327 OBD2 dongle that I used on my '98 can, but it's not even canbus, and yet, canbus actually means broader array of modern scan tools and dongles should be able to read the speed sensor data, as long as they are compatible with the Ford specific code sets, outside the OBD2 code sets. This is where Forscan app comes into play, at least for my '98. The '14 has never had any codes set (knock on wood!).

The sensor mounts on the hub, it sticks through the hub and there is an exciter ring on the outside of the Axle to pickup the speed. There is no rust or any kind of build up on it. There was axle grease but i cleaned that up.

 

[J_C]

It doesn't really matter, but I kept looking and the best info I could find was that it mounts on the knuckle, where I've placed an arrow.

Either way, I'd want a scan tool that can read Ford-unique codes, and hopefully also see real time wheel speed sensor data while driving.

The master cylinder doesn't have a way to not send pressure to all wheels simultaneously, but the ABS module does. Another potential thing to try is pull the fuse to the ABS module and see if you then get that brake caliper working normally, just as a test - doing this can in itself trigger a trouble code that "might' need a scan tool to reset. On my '98 it also caused the speedometer to stop working, but certainly your 2020's traction control won't work.

I should have already asked, are you feeling any pulsation in the brake pedal due to ABS activating?

I'm also a bit curious about the statement "If i hit the brake hard i lock up the driver and the passenger caliper never engages at all.", because ABS working properly, shouldn't be allowing the driver's side to lock up more than (milliseconds?) unless ABS or the left caliper has a problem? However I suppose it's possible, that the problem on the right side is causing ABS to disable itself but then we're back to square one because then the right caliper should be engaging.

 

[Fanatic1074]

It doesn't really matter, but I kept looking and the best info I could find was that it mounts on the knuckle, where I've placed an arrow.

Either way, I'd want a scan tool that can read Ford-unique codes, and hopefully also see real time wheel speed sensor data while driving.

The master cylinder doesn't have a way to not send pressure to all wheels simultaneously, but the ABS module does. Another potential thing to try is pull the fuse to the ABS module and see if you then get that brake caliper working normally, just as a test - doing this can in itself trigger a trouble code that "might' need a scan tool to reset. On my '98 it also caused the speedometer to stop working, but certainly your 2020's traction control won't work.

I should have already asked, are you feeling any pulsation in the brake pedal due to ABS activating?

I'm also a bit curious about the statement "If i hit the brake hard i lock up the driver and the passenger caliper never engages at all.", because ABS working properly, shouldn't be allowing the driver's side to lock up more than (milliseconds?) unless ABS or the left caliper has a problem? However I suppose it's possible, that the problem on the right side is causing ABS to disable itself but then we're back to square one because then the right caliper should be engaging.

View attachment 463470

Went out of town for the weekend. I did have to replace the ABS sensor on the drivers side and that fixed the ABS not working so it is working now when i hit the brake hard. However still not getting anything on the other side and i think the rear isnt working either.

I tried pulling the ABS fuses and the truck refused to start after that. Just get nothing. I pulled fuse 23 28 and 29.

The right side still has rust on it and when a big gap between the pads and the rotor.

 

[J_C]

Went out of town for the weekend. I did have to replace the ABS sensor on the drivers side and that fixed the ABS not working so it is working now when i hit the brake hard. However still not getting anything on the other side and i think the rear isnt working either.

I tried pulling the ABS fuses and the truck refused to start after that. Just get nothing. I pulled fuse 23 28 and 29.

The right side still has rust on it and when a big gap between the pads and the rotor.

There should never be a big gap, can you get a picture of this? Now I'm thinking it is a mechanical problem, like either caliper slide rails too rusty or the slider pins themselves have dried up lube and rusted. Seems strange though, for this amount of rust already on a '20. Another possibility is dimensionally defective pads, with ears that stick out too far and need trimmed up with a file.

The other factor is that I was unaware that it could sense a mechanical problem like that and cause any dash messages or trouble codes.

The fuses, there should have only been one that needed pulled to disable the ABS from activating while driving.

 

[Fanatic1074]

There should never be a big gap, can you get a picture of this? Now I'm thinking it is a mechanical problem, like either caliper slide rails too rusty or the slider pins themselves have dried up lube and rusted. Seems strange though, for this amount of rust already on a '20. Another possibility is dimensionally defective pads, with ears that stick out too far and need trimmed up with a file.

The other factor is that I was unaware that it could sense a mechanical problem like that and cause any dash messages or trouble codes.

The fuses, there should have only been one that needed pulled to disable the ABS from activating while driving.

Its the gap from pushing the pistons in to install the new pads, its still there.

The rust is from the truck sitting for a couple weeks before i got a chance to change things out. Its the rotors that are rusty, its just light surface rust.

And yea there is alot of electronic BS in this truck. There are 3 ABS fuses, one 10 amp one 40 amp and one 60 amp, not sure what all they control but i know they also control the electronic parking brake as well.

Im pretty sure the ABS is locking out the calipers and i cant reset it because i dont have the proper scan tool.

 

[J_C]

Might be a silly question, but have you yet tried pressing the brake pedal while it's shut off, not even needing the key in the ignition? If it still has the gap after doing that, we can rule out ABS because ABS isn't operating when the vehicle isn't even running, unless the ABS module itself has a fault, but it seems like it would be quite a coincidence to have that happen right when you did the brake job.

I don't recall you mentioning anything about bleeding or flushing the brake fluid but if you did that, possibly there's now air in that line to the problem caliper?

Either way, next I'd hook up a bleeder jar and hose to that caliper's bleeder screw, make sure the master cylinder is full of fluid, and apply the brake pedal to see if fluid comes out when loosening it - vehicle still shut off. I assume you know how to bleed brakes using this method, that the jar needs fluid in it, or a helper to tighten the bleeder screw before the brake pedal is released to not draw air up into the line while doing this.

This has a double purpose, to make sure there is no air in the line, but also if the pedal is pumping fluid out the bleeder without air in the line (so after bleeding, I'd try the pedal again, before...), then I'd suspect your caliper piston is seized. This also assumes no rust or other dimensional issue between the pad ears and slide rails, and the slide pins aren't seized.

Other possibilities, just throwing this out there: Is it possible when the caliper was taken off and put back on, that the soft hose to it was twisted 360' and now is kinked shut?

 

[Fanatic1074]

Might be a silly question, but have you yet tried pressing the brake pedal while it's shut off, not even needing the key in the ignition? If it still has the gap after doing that, we can rule out ABS because ABS isn't operating when the vehicle isn't even running, unless the ABS module itself has a fault, but it seems like it would be quite a coincidence to have that happen right when you did the brake job.

I don't recall you mentioning anything about bleeding or flushing the brake fluid but if you did that, possibly there's now air in that line to the problem caliper?

Either way, next I'd hook up a bleeder jar and hose to that caliper's bleeder screw, make sure the master cylinder is full of fluid, and apply the brake pedal to see if fluid comes out when loosening it - vehicle still shut off. I assume you know how to bleed brakes using this method, that the jar needs fluid in it, or a helper to tighten the bleeder screw before the brake pedal is released to not draw air up into the line while doing this.

This has a double purpose, to make sure there is no air in the line, but also if the pedal is pumping fluid out the bleeder without air in the line (so after bleeding, I'd try the pedal again, before...), then I'd suspect your caliper piston is seized. This also assumes no rust or other dimensional issue between the pad ears and slide rails, and the slide pins aren't seized.

Other possibilities, just throwing this out there: Is it possible when the caliper was taken off and put back on, that the soft hose to it was twisted 360' and now is kinked shut?

Yea thats how i typically set the pads after a change. However this system as soon as you open the doors it starts to do systems checks.

I didnt even break open a bleeder valve. No point, just changing pads.

So i did fix it. Went to Harbor Freight and got a scan tool. There was about 15 ABS codes, cleared them all away and boom brakes again. Everything is now fine. No codes and all brakes are working again.

My guess is like i was saying earlier. For some reason the electronics on this thing just tripped out when i replaced the pads and assumed there was an error. So ABS for some reason decided it was better to have no brakes then it not knowing whats going on.

Anyway, for anyone wanting to learn a lesson from this. If your doing brakes on these things. Id just disconnect the battery do the brake job and get the pads set before you reconnect the battery and then hopefully you should be fine.

 

[74thing]

For rear brakes put in maintenance mode for sure, without scan tool: Not sure if needed for front.
BTW what scan tool at Harbor Freight did you buy? I don't really want For scan seems too complex for my age!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAQ9hW5vsA0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAQ9hW5vsA0
Police Maintenance Department 2020 Explorer and Up Park ...
YouTube · Ford Boss Me - Auto / Politics / Family
Mar 17, 2022

 

[Fanatic1074]

For rear brakes put in maintenance mode for sure, without scan tool: Not sure if needed for front.
BTW what scan tool at Harbor Freight did you buy? I don't really want For scan seems too complex for my age!


Police Maintenance Department 2020 Explorer and Up Park ...
YouTube · Ford Boss Me - Auto / Politics / Family
Mar 17, 2022

I got this one.

https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/diagnostic-testing-scanning/code-readers-scanners/zr15s-obd2-code-reader-with-35-in-display-and-active-testfixassist-57662.html

 

[74thing]

I got this one.

https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/diagnostic-testing-scanning/code-readers-scanners/zr15s-obd2-code-reader-with-35-in-display-and-active-testfixassist-57662.html

Does this scanner allow you to put brakes into maintenance mode, which I believe retracts rear Ebrakes and 'allows' brake fluid to easily go back into master cylinder? That is what procedure in the utube video accomplishes. Why did you not do Forscan tool?

 

[Fanatic1074]

Does this scanner allow you to put brakes into maintenance mode, which I believe retracts rear Ebrakes and 'allows' brake fluid to easily go back into master cylinder? That is what procedure in the utube video accomplishes. Why did you not do Forscan tool?

I didnt try it but there is an option for it in the menus.

I wanted a stand alone tool. Didnt want to have to use another device.