2021 ST Line PHEV Driveline vibration

[EiB]

Hi all,

I'm experiencing a driveline vibration most noticeable at speeeds 53-63 kmh (33-39 mph) and a bit above 80 kmh ( 50 mph). It makes a drone sound that sounds like when a back window is open in highway speeds. The noise/vibration is present independent of drive mode and when in neutral. It seems to come somewhere from the center, below the center console.

I went to the dealer and they proposed changing the hanger bearing on the intermediate drive shaft, as this can cause NVH-issues.

After the change I now have an even stronger drone noise and vibrations at only the first speed range of 53- 63 kmh that I suspect is due to a tighter bearing capable of transferring stronger forces to the chassis.

Has anyone experienced a similar issue before and been able to get it resolved?

Thanks.

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum.
Are your tires the 21" Pirelli ones? They have sound-deadening material in them that could break loose. Have you had the tire balance checked?
A member in the following thread suggested putting the vehicle in neutral when it happens to see if the vibration is still present to try and isolate the issue. Driveline vibration ST

Peter

 

[AdB82]

Hi all,

I'm experiencing a driveline vibration most noticeable at speeeds 53-63 kmh (33-39 mph) and a bit above 80 kmh ( 50 mph). It makes a drone sound that sounds like when a back window is open in highway speeds. The noise/vibration is present independent of drive mode and when in neutral. It seems to come somewhere from the center, below the center console.

I went to the dealer and they proposed changing the hanger bearing on the intermediate drive shaft, as this can cause NVH-issues.

After the change I now have an even stronger drone noise and vibrations at only the first speed range of 53- 63 kmh that I suspect is due to a tighter bearing capable of transferring stronger forces to the chassis.

Has anyone experienced a similar issue before and been able to get it resolved?

Thanks.

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and I'm experiencing exactly the same issue as Eirik described in his post in April. Same speed ranges and also with me the vibration became more noticeable after they replaced the bearing on the intermediate drive shaft.

This car has been a complete nightmare from the start (October 2023) because they haven't been able to solve a single problem so far. Next to the vibration issue I got a terrible (herky jercky) transmission, but nothing wrong with it according to my dealership. My X5 with a broken transmission shifted even better prior to its overhaul.

Anyhow, curious if anyone has managed to get the vibration issue solved. If yes, what was the fix?

Thanks and regards,

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum AdB82.
Perhaps Erik has an update. He was active on the forum today.

Peter

 

[EiB]

Welcome to the Forum AdB82.
Perhaps Erik has an update. He was active on the forum today.

Hi there,

My issue is still not resolved. The next step the dealer is proposing is to replace the intermediate shaft. There was some lead time on this assembly. Still waiting for an appointment to get this done.

 

[AdB82]

Hi there,

My issue is still not resolved. The next step the dealer is proposing is to replace the intermediate shaft. There was some lead time on this assembly. Still waiting for an appointment to get this done.

Thanks for the update Eirik. Yesterday I got confirmed that they are going to try the same thing on my car.

 

[EiB]

Thanks for the update Eirik. Yesterday I got confirmed that they are going to try the same thing on my car.

My pleasure!

I'm really not holding my breath for this to be the solution though, as the vibrations in my case are not consistent, but varies in strength from day-to-day, maybe dependent upon ambient temperature... But we'll see!

Hopefully it will not end up with having to raise a buy back claim towards Ford/dealer.

 

[AdB82]

My pleasure!

I'm really not holding my breath for this to be the solution though, as the vibrations in my case are not consistent, but varies in strength from day-to-day, maybe dependent upon ambient temperature... But we'll see!

Hopefully it will not end up with having to raise a buy back claim towards Ford/dealer.

Sounds really exactly like what I'm experiencing. Here in The Netherlands, where you don't see too many Explorers, they claim that I'm the first and only one with this problem.

The transmission problem is driving me nuts as well. You don't have any problems with that?

 

[EiB]

Sounds really exactly like what I'm experiencing. Here in The Netherlands, where you don't see too many Explorers, they claim that I'm the first and only one with this problem.

The transmission problem is driving me nuts as well. You don't have any problems with that?

I'm pretty confident that several of these Explorer PHEVs have the same issue, as the cars naturally are produced on an assembly line to identical specs. The degree of vibration may vary, and I also suppose some owners (like myself) are more sensitive to something being out of spec.

The transmission is not perfect. It can jerk at some occasions with quick changes in acceleration. But I find it to mostly operate normally.

 

[Hyins]

Seems the driveshaft went out of balance and need to replace the driveshaft assembly.

 

[EiB]

Seems the driveshaft went out of balance and need to replace the driveshaft assembly.

Yes, I'm hoping for that change doing the trick, but not confident, as I'm reading on another forum that changing the intermediate shaft assembly in many cases doesn't remove the vibrations...

In theory the vibrations can originate from any component revolving at the same angular velocity as the intermediate shaft, but agreed that the vibrations most likely originate from the intermediate shaft being out of round or out of balance.

 

[EiB]

Hi all,
So an update is due:

The intermediate shaft assembly has now been changed. The result is that vibrations still persist and it's now even present at speeds above 60 km/h until well beyond 100km/h. So a surprising worsening of the problem was the result
I am guessing the source of the new vibrations has to be that the shaft assembly hasn't been properly balanced from factory or, it has been improperly assembled or, it doesn't play well together with the other parts of the driveline.

I think that this issue is to complex to be solved at a brand workshop and that FoMo Engineering Dept. needs to address this issue with full attention to have any hope for it to be solved.

I suppose a buyback is the way to go until that happens, which is unfortunate since apart from the vibrations issue I really like the car...

 

[AdB82]

Hi all,
So an update is due:

The intermediate shaft assembly has now been changed. The result is that vibrations still persist and it's now even present at speeds above 60 km/h until well beyond 100km/h. So a surprising worsening of the problem was the result
I am guessing the source of the new vibrations has to be that the shaft assembly hasn't been properly balanced from factory or, it has been improperly assembled or, it doesn't play well together with the other parts of the driveline.

I think that this issue is to complex to be solved at a brand workshop and that FoMo Engineering Dept. needs to address this issue with full attention to have any hope for it to be solved.

I suppose a buyback is the way to go until that happens, which is unfortunate since apart from the vibrations issue I really like the car...

Funny enough I had my intermediate shaft also replaced this week and more or less with the same outcome. The vibration seems gone or at least significantly less between 50-60km/h, but it's now back between 80-100km/h. Ambient temp definitely seems to play a role as well. If it's relatively warm outside, the vibrations are less and vice versa.

 

[EiB]

Funny enough I had my intermediate shaft also replaced this week and more or less with the same outcome. The vibration seems gone or at least significantly less between 50-60km/h, but it's now back between 80-100km/h. Ambient temp definitely seems to play a role as well. If it's relatively warm outside, the vibrations are less and vice versa.

I agree with you.

Ambient temperature send to play a role and it also helps to drive the components warm, it seems. Also, the vibrations are not consistent in strength and can vary from ride to ride.

 

[EiB]

Hi there,

A small update:
I recently had the car in to get the rear subframe axle bolt recall inspection. It seemed that this car has the strengthened rear sub frame with 2 bolts and surrounding bushings to fasten the differential gear from the rear, and not only 1 bolt, which some cars are fitted with.

If the car only had 1 bolt supporting the differential, I would be more inclined to believe
it being a cause for drive shaft vibrations, due to misalignment.

The next attempt proposed by the brand workshop is to assemble shims above the differential between the upper support bolts and the frame, in order to increase cv joint angles, as close to 0-angles can induce vibrations.

I'm not really optimistic...

Another thing I have noticed is that the car rocks/or bounces slightly at speeds between 40 and 56 kmh. It seems to arise from the rear left side, and not consistent from drive to drive, like the vibrations.

It's really peculiar, and I theorize that it might be linked to the driveline vibrations..

 

[peterk9]

If your vehicle has Goodyear tires it could be the issue that Perelli had with the sound-deadening material in the tire. Have a look at the following post #28.

Pirelli Scorpion Zero Tires - "PNCS"

Hello all, just joined so I could post here my experience with these POS PNCS tires. Mounted them and less then a month later we had a cold snap and the tires became unbalanced, figured at first snow or ice build up, but no. Then I thought maybe I lost a stick on weight, but the odd thing was...

www.explorerforum.com

Peter

 

[AdB82]

Hi there,

A small update:
I recently had the car in to get the rear subframe axle bolt recall inspection. It seemed that this car has the strengthened rear sub frame with 2 bolts and surrounding bushings to fasten the differential gear from the rear, and not only 1 bolt, which some cars are fitted with.

If the car only had 1 bolt supporting the differential, I would be more inclined to believe
it being a cause for drive shaft vibrations, due to misalignment.

The next attempt proposed by the brand workshop is to assemble shims above the differential between the upper support bolts and the frame, in order to increase cv joint angles, as close to 0-angles can induce vibrations.

I'm not really optimistic...

Another thing I have noticed is that the car rocks/or bounces slightly at speeds between 40 and 56 kmh. It seems to arise from the rear left side, and not consistent from drive to drive, like the vibrations.

It's really peculiar, and I theorize that it might be linked to the driveline vibrations..

Thanks for the update Eirik. It seems to be a serious problem which they can't get solved.

Quick update from my side: Late 2024 they replaced my rear drive shaft (not sure it it was left or right but they only did one side) as they believed that this would be the fix. Unfortunately (again) it wasn't. This week they replace both rear drive shafts including my differential gear. Now, at some speeds the vibrations only got worse.
Last year I was told that this vibration issue was an uncommon problem and at that time there were only two of these cases known in the Netherlands. Two weeks ago I did a test drive in two other Explorer PHEV's (MY2021) just to find out if the drive experience would be any different compared to my car or whether I would feel similar vibrations. Both cars had exactly the same issue so I'm convinced that most likely all these PHEV's (and perhaps even other models) have this problem. Probably some people simply don't notice it, but on the long term wear and tear causing high bills will make people notice.

How did it work out with the shim assembly that you explained above?

 

[AdB82]

If your vehicle has Goodyear tires it could be the issue that Perelli had with the sound-deadening material in the tire. Have a look at the following post #28.

Pirelli Scorpion Zero Tires - "PNCS"

Hello all, just joined so I could post here my experience with these POS PNCS tires. Mounted them and less then a month later we had a cold snap and the tires became unbalanced, figured at first snow or ice build up, but no. Then I thought maybe I lost a stick on weight, but the odd thing was...

www.explorerforum.com

Peter

I got Michelin summer tires and Vredestein winter tires. This problem is definitely not related to tires.

 

[EiB]

Thanks for the update Eirik. It seems to be a serious problem which they can't get solved.

Quick update from my side: Late 2024 they replaced my rear drive shaft (not sure it it was left or right but they only did one side) as they believed that this would be the fix. Unfortunately (again) it wasn't. This week they replace both rear drive shafts including my differential gear. Now, at some speeds the vibrations only got worse.
Last year I was told that this vibration issue was an uncommon problem and at that time there were only two of these cases known in the Netherlands. Two weeks ago I did a test drive in two other Explorer PHEV's (MY2021) just to find out if the drive experience would be any different compared to my car or whether I would feel similar vibrations. Both cars had exactly the same issue so I'm convinced that most likely all these PHEV's (and perhaps even other models) have this problem. Probably some people simply don't notice it, but on the long term wear and tear causing high bills will make people notice.

How did it work out with the shim assembly that you explained above?

Hi there,

Thanks for the update. I got shims installed late last year and also did a test drive in another explorer PHEV with the workshop manager at a dealer nearby.

The shimming had some effect, making the low speed vibrations around 60kmh less noticeable.
Also, the other Explorer gives close to the same vibrations as mine at different speeds, so this is definitely a issue stemming from design, and not a random fault in some cars. Hopefully the driveline is dimensioned to tolerate the vibrations it gives off. A good insurance is none the less a must when warranty expires.

 

[AdB82]

Hi there,

Thanks for the update. I got shims installed late last year and also did a test drive in another explorer PHEV with the workshop manager at a dealer nearby.

The shimming had some effect, making the low speed vibrations around 60kmh less noticeable.
Also, the other Explorer gives close to the same vibrations as mine at different speeds, so this is definitely a issue stemming from design, and not a random fault in some cars. Hopefully the driveline is dimensioned to tolerate the vibrations it gives off. A good insurance is none the less a must when warranty expires.

Ford clearly doesn't have its quality control process right. Not really what you would expect from a 90K Euro car. My first and last Ford, that's for sure which is a real shame because despite the issues, I do like the car. Here in Europe we don't have much alternatives that offer the same space unfortunately.