3rd-Gen AWD T-Case issues with tire wear?

[fusseli]

I've put 10kmi on my mounty since I bought it (121k currently), and in the last 1000 or so miles it's developed a nasty binding/shimmy type of sounds in turns after going for a long drive. A short drive around town or the morning after a long drive, there's no binding or sounds in turns and everything is fine. It only does it after 30 minute+ drives, and does it consistently.

It so happens my tires were pretty worn down, and they were worn a bit uneven due to infrequent rotations by the PO. Since it seemed logical the Tcase issues could be due to uneven tire wear, I decided to get new tires since they were worn anyways. Went with Cooper Discoverer ATR 265-70/R16s, 1" over the stock sized Michelin highway tires that were on there. Might as well upgrade at the same time

I haven't tried a long drive yet to try out and see if the shimmying is solved. Want to get it sorted out just in case I'm causing the wear. If it's the case that the t-case is on it's way out already then so be it, I just want to be sure.

Any other ideas or possibilities as to what the transfercase issue could be?

 

[jrford]

"binding/shimmy type of sounds in turns after going for a long drive."

That sounds like wheel bearings? Ball Joints? Tie Rod ends? Thrown weight? Axle Half shafts?

Or a tire alignment, it might indicate if any of those areas are an issue.

What might be happening is when things are cold its tight, but as things heat up it might be loosening up a little or expanding tolerance. Just a guess from afar.

 

[fusseli]

"binding/shimmy type of sounds in turns after going for a long drive."

That sounds like wheel bearings? Ball Joints? Tie Rod ends? Thrown weight? Axle Half shafts?

Or a tire alignment, it might indicate if any of those areas are an issue.

What might be happening is when things are cold its tight, but as things heat up it might be loosening up a little or expanding tolerance. Just a guess from afar.

Thanks for the input. For whatever reason I was thinking it seemed like the t-case might've been heating up and binding, but there's no reason to assume only that.

Ya it's kinda tough to describe. After a long drive straight driving is perfect, but in turns there's an audible binding or rubbing sound (not a screeching or grinding) and it feels like there's resistance in the front wheels which requires little extra gas pedal to overcome. From a cold start or after a short drive it doesn't do it at all.

My upper ball joints look fine at a glance and I changed one wheel bearing up front a couple thousand miles ago. I did just get a full alignment with these new tires. I will be going on a trip this weekend to see if the tires/alignment help anything.

Still doesn't hurt to entertain other possibilities!

 

[jrford]

Another idea, if its the same in L/F turns, that might indicate something is wrong with the Front Diff. That would cause binding if its messed up somehow.
Also brakes? Some report when driving through snow, something somehow catches the anti-squeal plates (silver things between the pads and caliper) and they rub against the rim.

some tests i can think of that might point you in the right direction:

You can check the driveline for overheating by taking a spray bottle of water and hit each of the components, it shouldn't boil off if its OK, if it hisses you might have something wrong there.

Get all 4 wheels in the air (usually a shop with a hoist) and run them see if the noise goes away, sometimes without tire noise you can 'hear' or 'see' whats wrong.

To test the front diff one tip (usually to see if its the xfr case) is to remove the front driveshaft, if the binding is gone then its in the xfr case, still there it would point to the front diff or half shafts.

For example, you can't find the overheated part, but the noise is still there in the air - wheel bearings.

With the wheel bearings the typical 12-6 wiggle test doesn't really show anything. It wasn't until i had the hub in hand could i 'feel' the rough spot. in other words it checked out while mounted on the truck.

 

[JerGaffey]

I have a '02 Moutaineer that has had a similar problem. I have found that the viscous coupler in the transfer case is bad and therefore the vehicle is in 4 wheel drive all the time. Hence the binding when turning.

 

[fusseli]

You can check the driveline for overheating by taking a spray bottle of water and hit each of the components, it shouldn't boil off if its OK, if it hisses you might have something wrong there.

Get all 4 wheels in the air (usually a shop with a hoist) and run them see if the noise goes away, sometimes without tire noise you can 'hear' or 'see' whats wrong.

To test the front diff one tip (usually to see if its the xfr case) is to remove the front driveshaft, if the binding is gone then its in the xfr case, still there it would point to the front diff or half shafts.

Sounds like the water spray test will be the only easy test I can get to myself...

I have a '02 Moutaineer that has had a similar problem. I have found that the viscous coupler in the transfer case is bad and therefore the vehicle is in 4 wheel drive all the time. Hence the binding when turning.

Did a shop diagnose it? Have you priced a t-case rebuild vs. getting a new one?

 

[JerGaffey]

I have not had it into a shop. My self diagnosis has been through process of elimination. After checking out the wheel bearings, the front axle shafts, etc. I removed the front drive shaft and the binding and the noise went away. I have also done a lot of online research and found that it is quite common for the viscous coupler to fail in these transfer cases of AWD vehicles.
As far as price to rebuild or repair the transfer case, I have not had an official quote from a shop. I'm planning on doing it myself. I know the coupler from Ford is around $700 but there are places that sell them cheaper.

 

[fusseli]

Took a trip last weekend, fresh tires didn't make any change.

I did spray some water under the vehicle but I didn't crawl far enough in to see if it was steaming off of the driveshaft, but it is definitely steaming off of the front diff...

I have not had it into a shop. My self diagnosis has been through process of elimination. After checking out the wheel bearings, the front axle shafts, etc. I removed the front drive shaft and the binding and the noise went away. I have also done a lot of online research and found that it is quite common for the viscous coupler to fail in these transfer cases of AWD vehicles.
As far as price to rebuild or repair the transfer case, I have not had an official quote from a shop. I'm planning on doing it myself. I know the coupler from Ford is around $700 but there are places that sell them cheaper.

Have you found a way to rule out the viscous clutch failing vs. a differential problem? Or would that be found also via front driveshaft removal...

 

[jlrapp8]

I haven't had mine in the shop to get fixed yet. but i have the same problem. someone told me its the clutch pak in the rear end. it feels like its in the front. but i took the front drive shaft off and it still binds but isn't as noticeable. had a rear end shop quote me about 500 to do the job.

 

[fusseli]

I haven't had mine in the shop to get fixed yet. but i have the same problem. someone told me its the clutch pak in the rear end. it feels like its in the front. but i took the front drive shaft off and it still binds but isn't as noticeable. had a rear end shop quote me about 500 to do the job.

Binding up in turns caused by the rear diff? huh.

 

[jlrapp8]

ya thats what i thought too when i first heard about. I know there is a FORD service bulletin about it somewhere. when i took the front drive shaft off it went away. but it came back so makes me believe it is the rear end. it explains more about it in the service bulletin

 

[jlrapp8]

thats what i thought

Binding up in turns caused by the rear diff? huh.

ya thats what i thought too when i first heard about. I know there is a FORD service bulletin about it somewhere. when i took the front drive shaft off it went away. but it came back so makes me believe it is the rear end. it explains more about it in the service bulletin

 

[jlrapp8]

Read this and see if this sounds like it?

Binding up in turns caused by the rear diff? huh.

I just noticed this problem the other day with my '02. Below is a copy of the TSB I found at another forum; it looks like a lot of Fords had this problem. Does anyboyd know what it will do if you don't replace the clutch pack? I can put up with the binding/chatter if it's not ruining anything in my truck.

TSB 04-24-20
· LIMITED SLIP AXLE CHATTER, SHUDDER, BINDING SENSATION, OR VIBRATION DURING LOW SPEED TURNING MANEUVERS
FORD:
2002-2005 Crown Victoria, Mustang, Explorer
2003-2005 Expedition
2004-2005 F-150LINCOLN:
2002-2005 Town Car
2003-2005 NavigatorMERCURY:
2002-2005 Grand Marquis, Mountaineer

This article supersedes TSB 04-17-5 to update the model year and vehicle line coverage. ISSUE:

Some 2003-2005 Expedition/Navigator, 2004-2005 F-150 vehicles equipped with a 9.75" or 8.8" limited slip rear axle, and 2002-2005 Explorer 4dr, Mountaineer, Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Town Car, and Mustang vehicles equipped with 8.8" limited slip rear axle, may exhibit a chatter, shudder, a binding sensation, or a vibration during low speed turns. On 4x4 vehicles, the sensation may appear to be originating from the front axle or the steering gear.

ACTION:

First verify the condition. On 4x4 trucks ensure that the vehicle is in 2WD, to isolate the rear axle. On all vehicles, turn the wheel fully right (or fully left) and then accelerate the vehicle. If the condition is verified to be in the rear axle, replace the limited slip clutch pack.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

CAUTION:INSTRUCT THE CUSTOMER NOT TO TOW WITH THE VEHICLE FOR 500 MILES AFTER THIS REPAIR, TO ALLOW THE AXLE TO BREAK-IN PROPERLY.

Order and install the appropriate clutch pack, follow the installation instruction sheet included in the service kit.
· 3L1Z-4947-AB (9.75" limited slip)
· 3L1Z-4947-BC (8.8" limited slip)
NOTE:INSTALLING A CLUTCH PACK INTO AN INDEPENDENT REAR SUSPENSION (IRS) AXLE IS DIFFERENT FROM INSTALLING A CLUTCH PACK INTO A SOLID-BEAM AXLE. BE SURE TO FOLLOW THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTION SHEET INCLUDED IN THE SERVICE KIT.

INSTALLATION TIPS
· The clutch packs in this service kit DO NOT need to be shimmed. The clutch pack contains a pre-measured shim.
· Be sure to install NEW circlips and halfshaft/wheel end nuts on IRS rear axle (not included in the service kit).
· Soak the new clutch packs in Friction Modifier XL-3 (NOT XL-7) for fifteen (15) minutes prior to installation.
· For IRS axle, Halfshaft Seal Protector 205-506 (included in the 2002 Explorer/Mountaineer Essential Tool Kit) must be used when removing the halfshafts to protect against seal damage, which may result in leaks.
· Refill axles with 4 oz. Friction Modifier (XL-3) and the necessary amount of Rear Axle Lubricant XY-75W140-QL, regardless of the axle lubricant system originally used in the axle. Fill to capacity recommended in the Workshop Manual.
NOTE:AXLE FLUID REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN CHANGED. ALL VEHICLES BEING REPAIRED BY THIS TSB MUST HAVE REAR AXLE LUBE XY-75W140-QL INSTALLED, IN PLACE OF XY- 75W90-QFEHP. AS PART OF THIS REPAIR, CHECK AND REPLACE IF NECESSARY THE CURRENT XY-75W90-Q"FEHP" METAL TAG, WITH A NEW 75W140 TAG (F3TZ-4121-AA). ADDITIONALLY, REMOVE THE MULTI-COLORED LABEL WHICH IS LOCATED ON THE RIGHT SIDE AXLE TUBE, OR BLOCK OUT ANY/ALL "FEHP" OR "75W90" REFERENCES ON THE LABEL.

PART NUMBERPART NAME 3L1Z-4947-AB9.75" RR Axle Clutch
3L1Z-4947-BC8.8" RR Axle Clutch
XY-75W140-QLRear Axle Lubricant
XL-3Friction Modifier Additive
W710084-S439Nut (Wheel End)
2L1Z-4B422-CACirclips (for 9.75")
1L2Z-4B422-BACirclips (for 8.8")

WARRANTY STATUS:

Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
042420A
Expedition Without Air Suspension: Replace Clutch Pack (Includes Time For Road Test To Verify Concern, Replace Rear Clutch Pack, And Re-Road Test)4.2 Hrs.

042420B
Expedition/Navigator With Air Suspension: Replace Clutch Pack (Includes Time For Road Test To Verify Concern, Replace Rear Clutch Pack, And Re-Road Test)4.4 Hrs.

042420C
Explorer/Mountaineer: Replace Clutch Pack (Includes Time For Road Test To Verify Concern, Replace Rear Clutch Pack, And Re-Road Test)4.6 Hrs.

042420D
F-150: Replace Clutch Pack (Includes Time For Road Test To Verify Concern, Replace Rear Clutch Pack, And Re-Road Test)3.0 Hrs.

042420E
Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis, Town Car: Replace Clutch Pack (Includes Time For Road Test To Verify Concern, Replace Rear Clutch Pack, And Re-Road Test)3.0 Hrs.

042420F
2002-2004 Mustang: Replace Clutch Pack (Includes Time For Road Test To Verify Concern, Replace Rear Clutch Pack, And Re-Road Test)2.9 Hrs.

042420G
2005 Mustang: Replace Clutch Pack (Includes Time For Road Test To Verify Concern, Replace Rear Clutch Pack, And Re-Road Test)3.4 Hrs.

042420H
Mustang Cobra: Replace Clutch Pack (Includes Time For Road Test To Verify Concern, Replace Rear Clutch Pack, And Re-Road Test)5.6 Hrs.DEALER CODING

BASIC PART NO.CONDITION CODE4947D4

 

[jlrapp8]

another one

Binding up in turns caused by the rear diff? huh.

http://mygtcs.com/mustang/documents/tsb/tsb04-24-20.pdf

 

[fusseli]

Very interesting, thanks a lot for that TSB. I think I'd rather pay for clutch packs than a new t-case haha. I don't quite understand how it says to verify it's the rear axle though?

I'm trying to avoid taking my mounty to a shop to have some brain-dead guy try and diagnose it. That or take it to Ford and have them charge me an arm and a leg.

 

[jlrapp8]

Very interesting, thanks a lot for that TSB. I think I'd rather pay for clutch packs than a new t-case haha. I don't quite understand how it says to verify it's the rear axle though?

I'm trying to avoid taking my mounty to a shop to have some brain-dead guy try and diagnose it. That or take it to Ford and have them charge me an arm and a leg.

Well it sounds like i have the same problem your describing. i took the front drive shaft off and i thought it went away but it came back which really makes me think it is the rear end. when its in AWD You feel it more just cuz theres more tension.

 

[fusseli]

I changed my front diff oil this morning... holy crap am I glad I did. The first pick was me after about 45min of pumping, the stuff came out just a splooge at a time. Probably the pump I was using, and the thin black hose it tapers down to in order to fish into the diff housing. The second pic is all of the old, nasty, black oil that came out. Pumped and wiggled the hose until it wouldn't do much more but make a sucking through a straw sound. Old stuff smelled bad and I'm guessing I only got about a quart out. I pumped about 1.75qts of fresh dinosaur 80W-90 back in (capacity is 2qts). I'm not expecting this to solve the binding problem but wow, it needed it Gotta love how POs never seem to know what routine maintenance is.