4.0 SOHC Tapping noise w/video

[BobWiersema]

Didn't see that one coming. All the Rislone in the world wouldn't have fixed that. To bad you didn't notice that before pulling the the cam. How in the world did that tensioner get stuck in such a short time? You do need that out to set the cam. Dont get it to hot.

 

[shelbygt]

Didn't see that one coming. All the Rislone in the world wouldn't have fixed that. To bad you didn't notice that before pulling the the cam. How in the world did that tensioner get stuck in such a short time? You do need that out to set the cam. Don't get it to hot.

Yeah I always seem to have the problems that are "outside the box".
I still would have had to pull the caps to weld the bar, but I could have left the cam and sprocket on.

I got the sprocket back on and ready for final torque.
I have no idea what to do about the tensioner. I can not get it loose. I have been at it all night and it is just getting ragged out from slipping off. When I pulled the old one out, the motor was out of the truck, so I didn't have an issue removing it. There was no washer on it, so I did not put one back in, but other than that, I don't understand. It's just my luck! I know the tensioner tool in the kit is supposed to be used, but if I can't get it out, I will just torque the cam sprocket down the way it is. It's always something stupid that makes the job 3 times longer than it should be.

 

[BobWiersema]

The way I remember it, the tensioner tool just puts the cam sprocket in place then the cam sprocket holding tool is installed. So in theory once you put the engine at TDC couldn't you use use some sort of non damaging type pry bar to put tension on the tensioner side before tightening up the sprocket holder. You follow what Im thinking? Just an idea. I wonder if you could just put tension on the cam sprocket to make the chain tight on the guide side before tightening the sprocket tool. Another crazy idea.

Did you have no luck with heating the head a little around the tension plug thing?

Im sure you will think of something, once you have all the holding tools in place, if that chain is nice and tight against the guide side, I think it would be fine.

Bob

 

[shelbygt]

There is no room to get anything to push against. If this was the left head it would be a breeze. I am going to try and borrow a small torch tomorrow and see if that helps to expand the aluminum. There is definitely tension on the chain right now as it sits, it was real hard to get the sprocket back on the cam. I suppose the OTC tool in the kit presses a bit harder on the cassette to replicate the stock tensioner with oil pressure on it. I don't know how critical it is to use the tool, but I don't want to screw up the timing.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Inferior design example

I removed the cam and when I was taking the caps off, I noticed that one of the tabs that bolts that bar, (I guess it is an oiler for the cam) to the cap was broken. I looked at the bar and it is bent and has marks on it from hitting 2 of the lobes of the camshaft.
I may have bent and broke the tab when hauling the head back from the machine shoop, but I really don't know when it got bent. I am pissed that I missed it!

I am going to spot weld the tab back on to the bar and put it all back together. . .

This is another example of Ford's inferior SOHC V6 engine design. There is no slot in the top of the camshaft bearing cap to keep the oiler tube mounting flange in place. Consequently, when the cap bolts are loosened and tightened the torque is applied to the weld that attaches the mounting flange to the oiler tube. On better designed OHC engine there is no added on oiler tube. My 1958 Jaguar XK-150 DOHC engine had no such kluge oiler device and the basic engine was first manufactured in 1946. My 1964 Alfa DOHC engine had no oiler tube. Ford's oiler tube reminds me of my dad's old Studebaker 3/4 ton truck engine that had "cups" on the crankshaft counterweights to catch oil from the sump and splash it on the crankshaft bearings as the shaft rotated. I believe it was called a "slinger crank".

I congratulate you on your persistence to find and correct the source of your ticking problem! Thanks for posting the results. I will watch for a similar failure as I reassemble my engine.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Tensioner tool keeps chain taught

The way I remember it, the tensioner tool just puts the cam sprocket in place then the cam sprocket holding tool is installed. So in theory once you put the engine at TDC couldn't you use use some sort of non damaging type pry bar to put tension on the tensioner side before tightening up the sprocket holder. You follow what Im thinking? Just an idea. I wonder if you could just put tension on the cam sprocket to make the chain tight on the guide side before tightening the sprocket tool. Another crazy idea. . . .

Im sure you will think of something, once you have all the holding tools in place, if that chain is nice and tight against the guide side, I think it would be fine.

Bob

As Bob said Dave, one of the special tools holds the sprocket from turning, another holds the camshaft in the correct orientation and a third one keeps the crankshaft at TDC. In your case all the tensioner tool does is keep the chain taught on the traction side. It is more important on the rear chain since the sprocket retaining bolt tightens in the direction that loosens the chain on the traction side.

I suggest torqueing the camshaft retaining sprocket without using the tensioner tool. Then remove all of the timing tools and rotate the crankshaft two revolutions clockwise back to #1 TDC on the compression stroke. The right camshaft has a tendency to rotate out of position because two valve springs are fully compressed at the specified timing position. If you attach locking pliers to the camshaft and rotate it counter-clockwise that will ensure the timing chain is taught. Then check the camshaft alignment slot for accuracy while making sure the crankshaft is still at TDC.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Tensioner compression ring

. . . I have no idea what to do about the tensioner. I can not get it loose. I have been at it all night and it is just getting ragged out from slipping off. When I pulled the old one out, the motor was out of the truck, so I didn't have an issue removing it. There was no washer on it, so I did not put one back in, but other than that, I don't understand. . . .

I originally thought that my old tensioner had no compression ring. But after using it with a spacer to time both chains it popped loose from the face of the head. It is very thin and hard to detect. I removed the compression ring from the old tensioner and installed it with the new tensioner and torqued to 49 ft-lbs. Ford's primary timing kit instructions are to torque the tensioner to 49 ft-lbs if using the original washer or 32 ft-lbs if using a new one. The Haynes manual makes no distinction and specifies 49 ft-lbs. Ford's SOHC engine assembly instructions specify 32 ft-lbs with no discussion about the compression ring.

Are you using a 6 point 27mm socket to try to remove the tensioner? If not, I suggest that you just leave it as is and attempt to time without removing the tensioner.

 

[shelbygt]

If you attach locking pliers to the camshaft and rotate it counter-clockwise that will ensure the timing chain is taught. Then check the camshaft alignment slot for accuracy while making sure the crankshaft is still at TDC.

Dale, I understand what you are saying, by rotating the cam counter-clockwise, it would shift the tension of the chain back to where it needs to be. What exactly would I attach the locking pliers to and what would it prevent from moving?

I am using a 6 point deep well 1 1/16 socket, 3 long extensions and a half inch breaker bar. I am going to try one last time using a heat gun to see if that expands the metal enough to loosen it up.

I looked expecting find that washer and never did, but it may have been replaced previously and not put back on.

 

[shelbygt]

OK, I torqued the rear sprocket bolt and this was MUCH easier with the motor out. The socket on the tool is barely deep enough to engage the bolt head, so you have to hold the torque wrench perfect or the socket comes off the bolt.

I rotated to motor twice to TDC and then put the slotted cam tool back on the head on and the timing is dead on. I am might pull the left cover and be sure that it is lined up as well.

 

[BobWiersema]

How did you put tension on the chain?

You going to get it started today?

 

[shelbygt]

How did you put tension on the chain?

You going to get it started today?

I didn't Bob, the only tension was from the stock tensioner.

I just finished pulling the left valve cover, put the tool on and it is dead on as well. The crank and both cams are at TDC.
I think that after turning the crank 2 full revolutions if the timing was off it would show up now. Maybe a new tensioner has enough spring in it to keep enough tension on the cassette? Good thing, because nothing I did could get that tensioner loose. If I am forced to remove it, that will mean either pulling the head again (80-100 bucks and half a day labor), pulling the motor again (days worth or more of labor), or splitting or cutting the tensioner with a dremel tool and removing it that way.

Off to reassemble....

 

[2000StreetRod]

Caution when tightening bearing cap bolts!

Dave I don't know if you have reinstalled your oiler tube yet but I'm posting this on all threads that are associated with camshaft timing.

I investigated further into how a camshaft bearing cap might break when tightening the bolts. I found that the bearing caps must be square with the head mating surface or the caps may bind. If the cap bolts are tightened with the cap off-square the cap may break. This failure can occur any time that the other three caps are removed or loose and a valve spring is compressed placing pressure on the camshaft. The valve spring pressure attempts to lift the camshaft but if the timing chain tensioner is in place one end of the camshaft is held down by the chain. The result is that the camshaft axis is at an angle to the head instead of parallel to the head. When a camshaft cap is tightened it attempts to seat on the journal which is at an angle to its seat on the block. As the cap is tightened the cap can bind and break from the stress.

The situation is most likely to occur with the right camshaft when it is in the correct position for timing. At this position the #2 cylinder valve springs are both significantly compressed placing a lot of pressure on the camshaft.

In most situations it is good practice to torque something long uniformly and in steps. In the case of the right camshaft I believe the risk of distorting the cam due to non-uniform torquing is much less than the risk of breaking a cap. I suggest that hand pressure be applied to the front end of the cam to compress the cylinder #2 springs as much as possible using the leverage of the camshaft length. Then the second from the front cap should be positioned with the other hand and its bolts carefully tightened. Repeat the hand pressure process for the third from the front cap and then return to the second from the front cap. The bolts on a particular cap should be tightened progressively so that the cap gaps stay comparable.

 

[shelbygt]

Dave I don't know if you have reinstalled your oiler tube yet but I'm posting this on all threads that are associated with camshaft timing.

I investigated further into how a camshaft bearing cap might break when tightening the bolts. I found that the bearing caps must be square with the head mating surface or the caps may bind. If the cap bolts are tightened with the cap off-square the cap may break. This failure can occur any time that the other three caps are removed or loose and a valve spring is compressed placing pressure on the camshaft. The valve spring pressure attempts to lift the camshaft but if the timing chain tensioner is in place one end of the camshaft is held down by the chain. The result is that the camshaft axis is at an angle to the head instead of parallel to the head. When a camshaft cap is tightened it attempts to seat on the journal which is at an angle to its seat on the block. As the cap is tightened the cap can bind and break from the stress.

The situation is most likely to occur with the right camshaft when it is in the correct position for timing. At this position the #2 cylinder valve springs are both significantly compressed placing a lot of pressure on the camshaft.

In most situations it is good practice to torque something long uniformly and in steps. In the case of the right camshaft I believe the risk of distorting the cam due to non-uniform torquing is much less than the risk of breaking a cap. I suggest that hand pressure be applied to the front end of the cam to compress the cylinder #2 springs as much as possible using the leverage of the camshaft length. Then the second from the front cap should be positioned with the other hand and its bolts carefully tightened. Repeat the hand pressure process for the third from the front cap and then return to the second from the front cap. The bolts on a particular cap should be tightened progressively so that the cap gaps stay comparable.

Yes I already installed the caps and oil tube. In the Haynes manual it said to remove the bolts in 1/4 increments and in reverse of the torque specs until all the bolts are loose. This was a 10-15 minute process, which prevents what you are saying could happen. When I reassembled the cam and caps, I rotated the cam so that there was no tension from the springs on the cam and I took my time going 1/4 turn at a time.

 

[shelbygt]

I got all but the fan on just in case I needed to remove it again (a PITA).
I started it and it started missing and sputtering, so I shut it of immediately. I go out and look and see if I missed anything and thinking something was majorly messed up.


So as I am shaking at the thought of pulling it all back off, I notice that one of the vacuum hoses on the intake was off. Thinking it may just be a coincidence I reluctantly started it again........fired up and all QUIET!
Back to installing the fan and shroud..
Thanks again Dale and Bob!

 

[2000StreetRod]

Congratulations, Dave!

Hopefully you won't be tearing it down again for many years!

 

[BobWiersema]

You had me worried there for a minute. Glad to here all is well.

 

[shelbygt]

Ok you knew it couldn't be over yet. Trucks runs good, had it idling and went down the street and the temp climbed to the point the check gauge light came on. I immediately shut if off and it is sitting down the street cooling off. I found that I forgot to clamp the upper heater hose that runs next to the valve cover, so it was just loosely pushed onto the tube, but it didn't leak out any coolant. I hope that is the problem. Maybe it sucked in air?

I wonder if anyone can confirm that the rubber thermostat o-ring goes on the top of the thermostat. I had that out to try and get it to stop leaking.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Thermostat orientation

The photo below by mixwhit is for a Ranger but the configuration is the same.

 

[BobWiersema]

Are you talking about that round 2 1/2 " O ring, look close if that has a slit on the inside it goes around the thermostat.

 

[BobWiersema]

Dale, That picture looks like it has a gasket on the top of the housing. Im almost positive the 98 has a o-ring in the housing, and another around the thermostat.


I just looked, RockAuto only shows a O ring under housing gasket.