4R55E tranny delayed shift, broken band ?

[naturlm]

My 95 Explorer with 153,000 miles (a great vehicle til now) starting giving blinking 3/4 od light at about same time it did not want to shift from 1st to 2nd at low RPM without taking foot off accelerator. Onboard computer readout gave me a code 646 and 647 (1-2 and 2-3 shift ratio problem).

Took to tranny shop for inspection, no metal parts found in pan, but they said intermediate band is broken, its shifting from 1st to 3rd, and that it needs a complete overhaul and rebuild at cost of $ 1800 plus.

Can tranny be pulled and single bad band replaced without going thru the rebuild to save $$$ ? Or is that kind of "fix only whats broken" approach a mistake in long run as the tranny shop says ? If they do a fix only whats broken, they will not give me any warranty. With complete overhaul, I get the 1 year or 12,000 mile warrenty.

I see Tammy's Trannys on Craigslist and Phenoix Hardbuild have rebuilt trannys in range of $ 700 with 12,000 mile warrenty, plus I need to give them back my core.

Comments appreciated, can't let it sit forever as wife needs going to work.

Mark

 

[Glacier991]

Let's start by assuming that the intermediate band is broken. In a transmission repair, a mjor cost element is the labor to remove and replace the transmission. (the $700 rebuilds do not obvious include that component and it may be hard to enforce any warranty). at 153,000 miles you have gotten good service from your transmission. If they have it out, my advice is to rebuild it. The intermediate band requires that the bellhousing and pump and OD unit and OD band and center support all be removed. You are half way into removing the parts for a total rebuild... (ok well maybe not half, but a goodly portion).

If you are asking my advice - rebuild it. Also - Ask what they plan to do to the valve body.

 

[naturlm]

I just received an ADSG Repair manual in mail, and under diagnosis procedure it mentions doing a stall test. I did the stall test with the shift lever in 2nd and it passed, not rising over 2700 rpm. Its my understanding if the intermediate band was really broken, the tranny should have failed the stall test in 2nd gear ? Is it possible the 2nd shift servo valve or solenoid is not working ? I am getting no error code for an electrical problem in any of the solenoids, but could there be a mechanical problem, such as a sticking valve on the 2nd gear solenoid that would not be picked up with the EEC IV computer ? Note: I see the 1996 and later have an EEC V computer which gives error codes for a solenoid valve problem. I have added a pint of Seafoam distillate based additive to try and free up any sticking valves, drove it 15 miles, but am still getting the blinking 3/4 od error light. It does seem however, to now shift with less delay, to point I am thinking there may not be significant problem other than how do I get the computer to stop putting out the error codes ? Is there something called a computerr reflash procedure that might be tryed ? or are some of my clutches really just worn out ? But if they are warn out, how come no problem in the 2nd gear stall test ? Confusing at this point..........

 

[Glacier991]

I started by assuming. I will openly express my skepticism about Trannie repair shops. YOU could look at a broken intermediate band.... The dishonesty in auto repair taints good shops. Dealerships bear a huge brunt of this.... mainly because they are profit driven, but on the overall scale less dishonest.

So let's backtrack. You now have your truck (Ex). And can test it for us. Let me redigest things....asking for some help here from some other good hands, including NEW ones (hint).

 

[naturlm]

I just completed stall testing in OD, 1st and Reverse also. It passed all of them just like it passed stall in second earlier. None of the stall test went below 2400 rpm or over 2800 rpm. I am still as confused as ever. I will now delete all the error codes once again, drive a few miles, check the error codes once again to see if they are still 646 and 647.

 

[naturlm]

I deleted the error codes in computer, started fresh, drove a few miles in OD shift lever position, and had flashing light on 3/4 OD indicator again occur.

At end of test drive, where it seemed to be giving me a delayed upshift from 1st to 2nd, I read out computer codes, and again I am getting the 3 digit DTC code 646 which is described in ATSG manual as caused by componet SS1, SS2, SS3 (solenoid switches) or by internal parts. This 646 error code is also described as a "2nd gear error", "condition of no second gear" with symptom described in the ATSD manual as "improper gear selection depending on failure or mode and manual lever position. Shift errors may also be due to other internal transmission concerns (stuck valves, damaged friction material)".

With above sympton discription (rather poorly written description in my personal opinion in the ATSD manual) and my passing of the stall tests, maybe its a stuck valve or partially stuck valve, that is giving the delayed shift from 1st into 2nd ?

Definetly am getting the feeling the ATSG tech manual for the 4R44E/4R55E I am looking at could have been a bit better organized and been written a better technical writer in plainer english ? Seems to be missing or not covering my particuliar situation very well ? I am a technically trained guy, but don't consider myself any kind of expert on subject of trannys. Expertise comes with many years of experience trouble shooting many different tranny problems. Still, wish the tech writer for the manual had gone a step beyond where he quit........

Bottom line, I still don't have a clue as to the real problem in my tranny and what to try next to diagnose the cause of the delayed upshift, error code 646 and how to correct it.

 

[Eneurb]

I wouldn't suspect a broken band, there could be a problem overdrive or intermediate servo pistons, but if that were the case, I would suspect that there would be some pretty obvious shifting (or not shifting) concerns. There was also a problem with powertrain control modules with part numbers F5TF-12A650-ARC and F5TF-12A650-ATC for a transmission control strategy problem.

 

[naturlm]

I replaced my ECU with one with same part number from junkyard, but it has not fixed the problem and the junkyard ECU is giving me same error code and same delayed shift in 2nd as the original ECU. I also note it shifts better (shift earlier from 1st to 2nd) when first starting out with cold engine and tranny. Also, I have noted if I start out from a stop with shift lever in 2nd (according to the ATSG manual that means the tranny is in 2nd and will remain in 2nd) and I then rev it up to 3000 rpm or more, and at high rpm then take my foot off the accelerator pedal, I do not experience the normal drag on the engine that should occur when one takes their foot off the accelerator in 2nd. The engine seems to drag down okay in 1st though, with same kind of test.

I am thinking there is some kind of intermediate servo piston problem such as piston to case wear excessive, seal leaks or ? Still, maybe I have two bad ECU's ? Is there such a thing as an OEM design in the ECU being to sensitive or overly sensitive to normal servo / valve wear and this type experience being the end result ? Thinking maybe I will go to Ford Dealer tomorrow and try to get access to the half dozen or so TSB issued on 95 transmission problem / diagnosis ? Wonder if I can just look at the TSB book for free ? Doubtful......

I note at the ATSG web site their was a past GEAR article on diagnosis of 4R55E Ford trannys. To access the article I would have to join ATSG and pay upfront big annual fee and also a monthly fee. Don't have the $ for that, but maybe someone knows how to access past old issues elsewhere ?

 

[Eneurb]

If you replaced the PCM with the same part no., you did not install the updated one. You have likely installed one with the same problem. If they want you to pay for the TSB info, don't... I can give you some of the info you need.

 

[naturlm]

Well......I finally paid the $ 25.95 annual dues to Alldata.com and I see now the TSB dated 03/16/98, says to check solenoids OK, bands OK and adjusted OK and that servos are not damaged. Then says to check TP sensor wiring, wiring crimps, do electrical componet wiggle test and then check to be sure PCM has latest level of calibration.

If after doing all of above, a problem still exists, then exchange old part number PCM F5TF-ARC calibration code 5-58B-R10 for a new PCM part number F5PF-BRA having calibration code 5-58B-R10.

I don't know much about PCM's but find it interesting both the old and new PCM have same cal code ? What does this mean ? What was changed between the old and new PCM's ? Program change to make it less sensitive to normal tranny wear or ?

I am still getting the code 646 and delayed shifting from 1st to 2nd. I think some shops call this a 1-2 flare ?

I stopped by two more tranny shops today to discuss the problem. First ship said based on my info (passing stall test in all gears, no braking with engine when in manual 2nd, slow shift into 2nd, but still getting 3rd and 4th and not skipping 3rd) that problem was mostly in valve assembly and that can be examined and overhauled without removing tranny from vehicle for approx $ 450. 2nd ship said first check would be to examine the intermediate servo piston as rubber on this servo can be slowly vulcanized by catalytic converter heat over many years and leaking to point it will not activate the intermediate band properly to give 2nd gear. Its my understanding this intermediate servo can be removed and examined / replaced fairly easily while tranny is on vehicle. If the intermediate servo replacement didn't fix problem, next step would be to overhaul valve assembly especially looking at seals and pistons involving shift into 2nd and 3rd gear. Both shops advised a complete overhaul would only be needed if all other earlier steps / fixes failed to solve the problem.

I think inspection and replacement of the intermediate servo might be something I could do myself. Not sure, but to do this I suspect I would need to remove pan, and drain tranny fluid first before removing heat shield and then prying / pressing in the servo cover so I can remove the snap ring holding in the cover. The I guess you slowly let out the servor cover which is under spring pressure, then remove servo piston and seal, examine for excessive hardness / deteriation and replace piston and seal. Not sure how I would apply pressure to servo cover so I could reinsert the snap ring ? C Clamp work here ? Maybe someone knows ? or do you need a special tool ?

 

[Glacier991]

because of the closeness of the cat, removing and replacing servos IN car, is more complicated than doing it when you are rebuilding the trannie OUT of the car. But, IT CAN be done. Yes there is a tool to compress the cover to remove the snap ring, but it is not essential. I have a couple if you want to borrow one. Removing that cover, snap ring and replacing the servo in car is not a fun job. In a recent thread someone described his agony in doing so.

The shops gave you good advice. Given the unpleasantness of the intermediate servo replacement, and in as much as it might be a good idea anyway, I might pull and rebuild the valve body first... THEN if that didn't solve your problem, look at the servo. If there is anything more I can do to help, let me know.

 

[fatfordfan]

no 2nd gear?

I also have a 2nd gear shift problem that the truck only shifts from 1st to 2nd when I let off the accelerator. I dropped the pan, did have parts, and believe they are part of a broken band from looking at diagrams. I only have 103k on mine, but am looking at total rebuild of the 95 4r55e.

 

[Glacier991]

by the way, you can buy reman's valve bodies and install hem yourself for about $200-$250. Even if you had a rebuild, you'd have that part done right (often rebuilders don't even rebuild the VB's just swap em)

 

[Glacier991]

deleted duplicate post

 

[fatfordfan]

I had same problem with my 95. It was a broken band and I could see it plain as day with the pan dropped. 1800 is a way better price than I was quoted. Never fixed it, traded for new truck.

 

[naturlm]

Delayed Shift into 2nd WAS broken intermediate band

Just wanted to advise further on this thread, my delayed shift into 2nd gear 4R55E problem was definetly a broken intermediate band. Its possible the band broke because of a bad throttle position sensor for a period of about 3000 milies which caused an excessive amount of shifting between 3rd and 4th on interstate driving speeds. Some of this excessive shifting occured when I was towing my 3500/boat trailor combo in flatland country in overdrive.

I installed a rebuilt 4R55E tranny to fix the problem. Now have put 18,000 miles on the rebuilt tranny, including pulling a 3500 lb boat/trailor combo about 2200 miles last two summers and its still running fine with now problems.

At same time of rebuilt tranny installation I also installed a new large tranny cooler in front of my radiator. The tranny fluid now comes from tranny and goes thru the stock radiator cooler and then goes thru the new tranny cooler before going back into the tranny. I also installed a tranny fluid temperature monitor in the transfer line where it comes from tranny and goes into radiator tranny cooler. The temp readout gage I mounted on driver side near center console near floor in the cab. The temp readout guage shows on summer warm days the tranny fluid never goes over 110 F when I am not towing. When towing 3500 lb boat / trailor combo on a 95 F outside temp day, the tranny fluid temp never goes over 140 F except on long steep hill climbs in 2nd or 3rd where it goes up to 160 F. or so. I believe before I installed the tranny cooler and when towing up hills, the tranny fluid temp may have been approaching 250 F. Not sure, but thinking the cooler tranny fluid temps I now have plus the new micro filter, both will add considerable miles to life of my rebuilt tranny, via better life of tranny gears, clutch surfaces, bearings, valve seals, valves, etc.

Also, this should be on separate thread, but my original 3.27 ratio rear differential starting getting a bit noisy (whinning sound) this summer from wear in pinon bearings and ring / pinon gear at about the point of 165,000 miles or so. Was definetly much louder sounding when towing my boat, but still sounded bad even when not towing. I replaced it about 3000 miles or 3 months ago with a 3.55 ratio 98 Explorer junk yard rear axle that yard advised had only 66,000 miles on it. Love my quiet rear end now and love having a bit more towing capability with the 3.55 ratio rear end. The 3.27 was OK for gas mileage and engine longevity, but the 3.27 ratio was hard on tranny and differential, especially when doing the near max rated (per owners manual) towing with the vehicle.

Note: My vehicle is a 2X4 '95 Explorer 4Dr, 4.0 V6 and since installation of the rebuilt tranny I have been doing all my towing in 3rd gear (overdrive locked out).

 

[4x4xbrian.com]

Bad servo pistons can cause low mainline pressure, leading to delayed/ sloppy shifts. this is an extreamly common problem especially if the heat shield has been removed or damaged. They are easy to replace if you remove the catalytic convertor.

 

[95exploders]

Hello Everyone I am new to this board! And yes I know this post is kinda old, but I have a 95 Explorer and I am having problems with my tranny! First off the tranny went out about 2 years ago and me and my brother rebuilt it and all it needed was a pump and a torque converter. As of about 3 months ago it started to act like it I was taking off in 2nd gear, a lot of leg. Then I noticed that when I put it into gear it had a delayed engagement and then when it finally did go into gear there was a lot of leg! Now I checked the line pressure and it was low in all gears! I do work in a shop where I live and I dont want to have to pull the tranny cause that's a pain in the a**! So I was wondering if anyone before me had these problems and if so what was wrong! I am thinking about just trowing parts at it but with my lucky that wont work! So if anybody can help me I would appreciate it! Thanks.

 

[tjones99]

Mine was a broken band too.

:exp:
OK, so I was having problems with my 1995 Explorer with O/D light flashing (which many know can happen with the old control computer and is cleared by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes) but this time the O/D flashing came back immediately after clearing the condition and there were issues shifting form 1st to 2nd gear. You had to back off on the gas and it would shift. Did all the usual, checked fluids, cleared the codes, no change. Decided to pull the transmission pan to see if there was anything obvious.

There was.

You know there is something wrong even as you are taking the pan off when you hear metal pieces sliding around in the pan.

Sure enough, there was an end from a band and a band apply strut swimming in the pan. Not likely they are spares.

For now I will put the pan back on so I can drive the beast while I determine whether I am getting a shop to rebuild the transmission or whether I am going to replace it with a rebuilt tranny or even replace the whole vehicle at this point with a new used Explorer.

As always, the Explorer forum comes through with the right answer. Its amazing that with all the pages out there in Google land, Explorer Forum ends up near the top always and the information provided by the posters is amazingly helpful. Thanks to all for posting their experiences and solutions.

 

[tjones99]

Tranny on the road again

My poor 1995 with the broken intermediate band needed help.

So I bought a "parts on the hoof" 1996 Explorer for $500 that was drivable, had a rebuilt tranny put in a couple of years ago, and ran decently.

I had a few options now. I could rebuild the 1995 tranny myself and drive the 1996 while I did it. I could get the 1995 tranny repaired while I drove the 1996. I could swap the 1996 tranny into the 1995. I could drive the 1996 and be done with the 1995.

One problem was my 1995... I like it better. Better body, better seats, the rad and the steering rack started leaking on the 1996, the nails were going into the cofin for the 1996 fast.

My son took the tranny out of the 1995 and at that point I decided to talk to tranny shops to see my options. Found my local AAMCO transmission shop was reasonable to talk to. He indicated if it was just the band it might be $200 to replace just the band (since I had the tranny out) but if there was more it might be $1200. I asked how much to tell and he indicated 1 hour labour. Not much to lose. Once apart there were other parts that were showing wear and roughness. They were concerned that there was metal throughout and it would be an issue down the road. Fair enough. Got my transmission back in a box and headded for plan B. Swap the tranny from the 1996 to the 1995.

Now if you have read this far down the thread you are in it for the long haul so here is my hindsight.

This is a monster job.

To get the tranny out you need to disconnect the driveshafts, drop the transfer case, remove the exhaust crossover, remove the starter, unbolt the transfer case bolts from the flywheel/flex plate via the starter hole to name the major components.

While my son dropped the tranny from the 1996 I spent literally the whole day drilling out the exhaust manifold studs that broke off on the 1995. 4 at the crossover to exhaust manifold connections and 3 at the catylitic converter. Brutal job lying on the driveway with it on ramps. Would have been better wiht a lift but thats not an option.

Next day was the tranny install. I welded up a sort of holder for my floor jack to hold the tranny as we installed. it. You have to have the torque converted splined on to the tranny and then jack up the tranny into position and get the 4 torque converter bolts to line up with the flex plate holes as viewed through the starter. If this isn't giving you a bad feeling then you are either a better mechanic than my son and I or are simply a master of the under estimate.

Once the tranny is on and the nightmare bolts along the top are done up and things like dipstick tube clamps are remembered then you move onto the transfer case, drive shafts, cables, wiring, brackets etc. Its a hell of a task.

Once we got it all installed there was the usual setbacks. Steel transmission lines had rusted and with all the flexing during the process they now leaked. I did learn one thing with this leak. I had done a quick fix on the obvious leak just under the rad where the lines cross from driver side to passenger side (thought it was "the" leak) and drove it to get parts and stuff. The other leak was further back and leaked enough tranny fluid to coat the back hatch with oil spots. Nice touch. What was odd was there appeared to now be a steering rack leak. Odd... steering fluid level wasn't going down. This is when I learned that tranny fluid leaking further back was quite capable of blowing forward almost 2 feet to the steering rack and make it look like a steering leak. Same colour fluid in both (though power steering is type F while tranny is NOT so don't mix the two as far as I know... anyone feel differently?) My steering leak was phantom tranny fluid blowing forward. One less problem to resolve later. Phew.

Anyways, we have the 1996 tranny in the 1995, plug for plug compatible, and it is working great.

I would never do this again.