4R70W torque converter

[DarkFox1]

well, I've been talking to some people, MR. asp, and a steve h. from allexperts.com showed em my dyno sheets, described my issues, both of them pretty much said the same thing...

torque converter

I know a couple of people on here suspect the TC to be the culprit as well. I've been looking around for the best way to cheaply and effectivley get this repaired, most shops here refuse to do any such thing without "a check engine light" (I'm REAL tired of that attitude) but I imagine I can find at least 1 willing to do the work.

Is there any way to gain any sort of performance over a stock TC w/o compromising daily drivability? and where would be the best place to look for any TC.. stock or performance.. or should I just have a shop include one with the install?



There has also been some speculation if the electronic pressure control might have something as well to do with it, this item I really dont know anything about but I'm told its an updated version of a vaccume solenoid? at any rate.. wouldn't there be some sort of light on if this item was malfunctioning? or would it be best to go ahead and replace this item as well while we're at it?

 

[DarkFox1]

thanks in advance

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

I called Art Carr Perormnce Dead Link Removed or (888)526-5868 and had a rock crawler torque converter built for me. They have several options to suit any performance you want, but I opted for a low stall that was more efficient at lower RPM's for the slow offroadin I do, but they also make high stall converters that are designed to provide max fluid lock up where it is needed in the power and torque curves.

 

[james t]

www.baumannengineering.com

they have some of the best 4R70W parts money can buy, and their not expensive.

 

[DarkFox1]

I just talked to someone there, didn't catch his name, he did not think the issue was torque converter related, and suggested that the wheel power numbers for an exploer should be about 160, and since I pulled a 170..... he does't tihnk theres any issue.

however he gave me another number of a performance shop in 770.. which sounds like ATL to me.. that might help answer some questions.

 

[james t]

remember, it is possible for a tranny to slip/act up under part throttle, yet act right under wide open throttle. your dyno run is partly good to go by... but it is only a measuring stick of what happens at WOT.

 

[DarkFox1]

one thing I have noticed the truck has plentyof power till about 1k rpm, I mean on initial takeoff it starts the wheels turning just fine, but as the engine starts spinning faster it seems that it loses something..

bauamn priced me $760 for a torque converter, so if thats not DEFINATLEY the problem.. I'm not going to do anything at all.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by james t
remember, it is possible for a tranny to slip/act up under part throttle, yet act right under wide open throttle. your dyno run is partly good to go by... but it is only a measuring stick of what happens at WOT.

He beat me to it, thats exactly what I was gonna say, you can dyno perfect numbers at full throttle even with a slipping trans or screwy convertor.

I seriously doubt it's your engine, even though you dynoed a little less then 5.0 Explorers I've seen, Troll was somewhere around 180rwhp when his was stock. Thats still not a big enough difference to cause you to get to 60mph about 5-10 seconds after 5.0 Explorers/Mountys that are running correctly. I mean, diesel Hummer would pry destroy you Although I think you've said your now around 11 seconds to 60, but thats still even slower then a 160hp ohv V6 with way less tq then the 5.0.

I know a few of us (me, james ect...) have told you before it has to be your trans or convertor, especially after I watched your video and your truck accelerated and sounded slower then if I put our Mounty in 2nd gear and floored it. I can't think of anything else that would be causing your problems

And you need to find a "good shop", your surrounded by dumbasses that shouldn't be allowed to go near a car/truck. That shop you just went to should have checked your trans/convertor, they obviously don't know that you can still put down regular numbers on a dyno with a fugged up trans/convertor. You need to come down to our dealership lol.

 

[DarkFox1]

well, I still think the TC is RELATED.. it may not be the issue.. but its part of it, as I noticed on my tranny rebuild receipt.. the valvebody was changed, not the torque converter, all they did was flush the converter.

this was a 54,9 and as you recall it was doing the same thing at 55 as it was doing a54,9 and today at 74 its STILL doing what it was doing only a lot worse now..

the shops that test drove my vehicle.. I noticed.. all did the same thing that I think is flawed.. they drove at a consistant highway speed.. doing 60 down a parkway for about 10 minutes isn't going to show you ****.. you need stop n go many take-offs in many situations...

I had one shop tell me to F**** myself after I told him I didn't care about troubleshooting, I just wanted a price on labor.. he said he couldn't do anything unless HIS tests showed and error. and anything wrong "even a slipping converter" should "trip the o/d light in your dash cluster"

boca raton sounds like its a bit too far away to get this fixed.. but I'm considering a lot of things right now, my future.. where I'm going, and I may be in this truck along time depending on which route I take.. so... I think it needs ot be fixed.. I know if you never drive this car hard or ask much of it it does just fine.. but I'm a demanding driver, so I know what it is and isnt doing..

my gas mileage has jumped signifigantly in the past couple months.. I went from 200-220 per tank to 240-260+ per tank.. I changed nothing..

 

[james t]

sorry if this pisses you of darkfox...

last weekend me and 3 friends went to the Supercross in Dallas. cruise set on 78mph, and stuck in 5 pm Dallas traffic for over an hour. i had 403 miles on the trip odometer when i coasted into a gas station. checked the mileage, and i got 21.8. MY HIGHEST YET!!! and that was with the clusterf**k traffic jam. sorry, had to brag for a minute lol.

if it makes you feel any better, i usually only get around 15 mpg all in town driving.

 

[DarkFox1]

na I used to see 20s years ago when we went on vacations, I'd see 300 maybe even 350 to a tank if I were lucky.

for a while I got 9-12 around town, but now I'm getting 15.. but I'm cursing myself saying that I checked my truck today.. 1/4 tank left and I've been 119 miles..

I just feel like the power is not getting to the wheels.. a power delivery issue, and the torque converter is the 1st thing in line..

 

[V8-X]

DarkFox, Thought I'd drop a line to see how things were coming along? Like you, I'm still having the problem. I'm searching for my 9th shop to have the X looked at again, and I'm going on my 12th month with this problem unresolved.

I want to say it's trans. related, but don't know what.

My problem is most common on light throttle, or climbing hills. Sometimes it doesn't seem to want to downshift, upshifts seem to be taking longer to change gears, transmission is starting to make noise like a manuel in to high of a gear, shudder from the trans. every once in a while. This problem changes when it happens, dependent upon if I have it in OD or not. With OD off the problem is most noticable around 30mph-40mph, then 50mph-60mph. With OD on, the problem is most noticable between 40mph-50mph, then 60mph-70mph.

Any thoughts on these symtoms? Thanks!

Hope everything gets corrected for your DarkFox, I know what you're going through.

 

[Apten]

if in doubt, dyno it in 2nd gear. The converter is completley UNLOCKED in 2nd, so if your dyno numbers look almost the same, you know it's not your power robber.

Sure an unlocked converter eats more HP than a locked one does at WOT, but you're talking about maybe 3%.

Brian

 

[DarkFox1]

haven't been looking, just.. going along for the ride in hopes it will either give up, or I can buy something new

one thing strikes me that you said really.........welll 2 things.. to be exact

the uphill thing.. and the noise, at the higher rpms I get a wirring noise, you know like the sound of something out of balance..

also uh, yea.. uphill is where most of the tension arises and it shifts hard most of the time.. but its not limited to that

yea mine takes longer to shift out of overdrive than it should also, sometimes I'll be at the top of the hill before it does..

I've given up pretty much, like I said.. I'm out of money for this car, if I ever get a 2nd job.. ford wil hafta work REAL hard to make me think they care enough for me to buy another one of their products.

the dyno shop here apparently has went out of business , so I'll never get to do any additional dyno tests

 

[Apten]

next time you go on vacation without the EX send me your EEC so we can enable the port and slap a chip on it to try that route again. I really think it will help

Brian

 

[V8-X]

I've found a dyno shop here in the Denver area, that I'm considering. The shop has already looked at the X once, but stated the FPR was the problem. Replaced the FPR for a second time, with no improvement. I'll talk to them about getting the X dyno'd.

Like you I'm basically broke now, after all I have replaced and the fees for diagnosis & service. I now have a little one on the way, so this will really curtails the $$$ that I can spend on fixing the X.

I'm a die hard Ford owner, so this hasn't detoured me from other Ford's YET.

 

[Majisto]

Perhaps the torque converter is not locking up?

 

[DarkFox1]

lemme know what kinda #s you get, and if you could scan those dyno sheets or something that would be helpful too, mine looked like a mountain range.. and its my understanding that it should look like a curve..

bj I'll see what I can do but, my car HAS to be there for me.. and I always take it on vacation with me, so I dunno how that would work, I wanted to talk to the local diablo sport dealer here, but he was the same shop that did the dyno-ing... hes gone now...

 

[V8-X]

How would you confirm if the TC is actually locking or not?

Around what speed or what gear should the TC lock up at?

As far as I can tell from the performance of the Transmission, the TC is locking up.

The part that thows me off is that the X is sluggish and slow through all speed ranges, but is worse between certain speed ranges. Which to me would mean it's not the TC. To me the performance of the X feels like the engine, transmission or TC is rubbing something or something or somehow restricted. When accelerating from a constant speed and the transmission downshifts to a lower gear, there isn't much power difference. Where before and with most transmissions, you will notice a considerable difference in acceleration speed & power when the Trans downshifts. This is not the case here, as it only has slightly more power and the engine sounds like it's working it's butt off to get up to speed, since I have the gas pedal pressed about 1/2 the way down. The gas pedal is also firm through most driving speeds, but when it hits these certain speed ranges, the gas pedal gets really soft & mushy feeling.

Thanks for the help & suggestions!

 

[DarkFox1]

I agree there.. its like the engines turning but nobodys home.. it gets a resistant squishy feeling, makes gasing it feel fruitless..