'97 4.0 timing chain, '99 engine donor, plus new '98 5.0, ongoing saga

[ThunderbirdSport]

About 190K miles, no idea on prior service. Engine died leaving my kid's sitter's driveway, we dragged it home and now it's in my shop. Fuel barely trickles out of the schrader during cranking after or after and the engine turns over fast.

Going by what I read here, it seems as if a compression test will tell me if the timing chain broke or whatnot, no?

This is the first 4.0 I've had, and it will damned sure be the last.


Oh, BTW, the engine had a rattle up top...I thought it was valvetrain noise...now that I'm (a little more) read on the folly of the 4.0....looks more like I've got a decent Exploder with a pile of junk under the hood...


Meanwhile, my 300K plus Mounty (also '97) simply won't die......if it had even half the miles, I'd simply swap the drivetrain and necessary bits. Would need an exhaust though....the 5.0 stuff is rotted away...no cats, sounds like a stock car (ughh).

Am I on the right path in thinking my timing chain is the culprit? Thanks, all..

 

[2000StreetRod]

Low fuel pressure is unrelated to a timing chain issue. However, if you have a slipped timing chain (which a compression test should reveal) you may not want to spend the money to correct your low fuel pressure.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

Thanks for the reply...wasn't sure if the timing chain had any bearing on fuel pressure. I'll get a compression tester and report back my findings...may be a day or so, getting ready to do another 3 day stretch of work.

 

[J$hort]

Maybe check to see if fuel pump is operating. I changed mine out a while back. There should be a noise of an electric motor running if you have someone listen at the open fuel cap. The motor is inside the tank and should run once ignition is turned on. If not that you may have a clogged fuel filter. I had both of these situations and fixed myself. Latest was corroded fuel lines on braided couplers in engine bay. That also led to a no fuel situation.... But you'd probably see gas all over if that was your issue.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

Just a followup, the right side timing chain is broken. No compression on those cylinders.
I'm pursuing a '99 5.0 Explorer (wrecked, good engine, trans) as a swap donor. Would this be feasible? I'm not afraid of the work...I've put together a few Mustangs and Tbirds, pulling and stabbing in engines doesn't bother me...

 

[2000StreetRod]

In my opinion the days of simple engine swaps ended with the incorporation of computers. As I recall PATS was implemented in 1998 and there were significant vehicle wiring changes between 1997 and 1999. I don't know how many vehicle wiring changes (if any) there were between a 1997 V6 and V8. The 1999 V8 engine wiring harness may not be compatible with your 1997 vehicle wiring. There will be PATS issues to resolve if you use the 1999 PCM. Also, I think your 1997 uses a low pressure return fuel system and the 1999 uses a high pressure returnless fuel system. You need a 1997 vehicle compatible V8 PCM, a 1997 vehicle compatible 5.0 engine wiring harness and 4R70W wiring harness. There may have been some engine and transmission sensor changes between 1997 and 1999. The least complicated (and most likely to succeed) swap would be with a 1997 V8 donor vehicle.

In my opinion it is not worth the cost and effort to perform a V6 to V8 engine swap when you can just purchase a functional vehicle with the V8 unless you have invested a significant amount of money and time customizing the V6 vehicle. What is the cost of the wrecked 1999 donor vs the cost of a functional 1999 with a V8? Could you part out your 1997 to make up the difference?

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

I'd be 300 into the '99, the upside is that it's also the same color (Oxford White), and has the hatch I prefer. (Haven't seen the vehicle, could be damaged, has been wrecked in front passenger side.)

What another guy suggested in another post was to use the '99 engine, and since my '97 Mounty is also no longer on the road, using it's wiring/fuel, and ecm to complete the transplant.

I can probably sell some of the stuff from the '99 that I don't/won't need and help someone else out with stuff they need too.

It's hard to find decent, non abused V8 stuff here, and the 4.0 Explorer has a really nice, rust free body, even the interior is in really good shape for a 20 year old. To me it's worth the hassle of a V8 conversion, I'd probably put a new water pump on the incoming 5.0, make sure it's good to go, etc. Don't really want to put together another 5.0 right now, have two I'm working on for my Mustangs.

Anyway, thanks for the words, you guys rock.

 

[Justinwht]

The motor is inside the tank and should run once ignition is turned on.

The pump runs about one second after you turn on ignition then pump stops -- that's normal. It starts again with engine running.

Without turning the key to start, you can usually hear it inside the cab if windows are closed. Or listen through fuel filler cap.

 

[RandomNerd2000]

The transmissions are different, if it was me, I'd use the 97 Mountaineer to fix the Explorer, and replace the engine with the one from the 99 Explorer, that's the easiest way to go about this.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

Random, that's my plan. I've no plans to deal with the PATS or switching fuel systems LOL.

A quick question? Since the '99 very obviously has the P heads, will there be any EGR differences I need to deal with? I'd prefer to not have to switch intakes (lower, at least, but if it's easier than dealing with a different EGR system, I will. Thanks

 

[RandomNerd2000]

Your 97 might have the P heads, here's a video showing how to show the difference
I'm pretty sure you're fine swapping just the bare stuff that doesn't match, fuel rail needs swapping, but I'm pretty sure that's most of it.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

The '97 I have doesn't have P's.....

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

Here's a quick update, I've got a '99 Mountaineer (not Explorer as I said before) and am in the process of yanking the body off of the frame. That way I can easier deal with the engine removal in my shop, and whatnot. It hit a tree on the driver's front, then flipped over. Engine is good, turns over, etc.

The frame is bent pretty bad...had to put a 4x4 block of wood between the sway bar and the frame just to keep the driver front tire from being cut on the inner fender. It's a real PITA to get the seats out without electricity. Might have to throw a battery back in just to move the seats up. Otherwise, it's business as usual per taking parts off. I've harvested the hatch and tails, they'll be put on the '97 at some point, after the 5.0 transplant is complete. Also as mentioned, I plan to use the '99 engine, and gut out my '97 Mountaineer for the '97 specific bits, PCM, trans, fuel and electrical. It's served me well, but it's little more than beater status, but I can feel good knowing it helped keep another one on the road. I love the 5.0, between the '97 Mounty, a '92 F150, and a Thunderbird that I no longer own, I have close to 900,000 miles total. My Mounty has over 300K itself. Only time it ever left me afoot was when the fuel pump died. Solid gold, that's why i'm willing to invest the time and effort to the transplant into the V6 Explorer. Straight body, has new front end stuff, new tires...has only a couple hundred miles since the tires were put on. Interior is great, etc. I'd be hard pressed to find a V8 that was in as good shape, and in any case, I'd lose money on the white one by selling as is, let alone scrapping it, so....

Anyway, any other advice will be appreciated, or maybe even signing me into the nut ward...lol.

 

[RandomNerd2000]

Yo I've got a question, your 99 Mountaineer, is it a Premier, with the info center console and the sub in the back? Would also say so on the back hatch, if so, PM me, I've been hunting a engine harness, PCM and all the modules to V8 swap my Eddie Bauer and if you're not using them I'm interested.

 

[koda2000]

Yo I've got a question, your 99 Mountaineer, is it a Premier, with the info center console and the sub in the back? Would also say so on the back hatch, if so, PM me, I've been hunting a engine harness, PCM and all the modules to V8 swap my Eddie Bauer and if you're not using them I'm interested.

FYI, It doesn't need to be a Premier to have this stuff. Both of our Mountaineers were Monterreys and had the info center and premium (Audiophile) sound systems.

 

[RandomNerd2000]

Yeah but I'm trying to V8 swap an Eddie Bauer and finding a donor, or even enough to assemble the thing is almost impossible because nobody local junks V8s.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

Heya Random, I'm not going to use the '99 harness, PCM, and related, so if you want or need it....


A little update is in order; I've decided to just swap the white Explorer body ('97) onto my 5.0 Mountaineer frame (also '97) and that way avoid having to swap engine, trans, wiring, fuel, pcm, etc etc.
i am aware that I'll have to do some engine bay parts changeovers, but that won't be nearly as much work as doing a full powertrain conversion.

Once that's all done, I'll be swapping the complete suspension from the explorer's frame onto the mountaineer's frame. The explorer currently has new: ball joints, shocks, hubs, and brakes front/rear.


I've not read too much about the transfer case options, if possible, I'd like to get away from the AWD and have a transfer case with 4 low, 4 high, and o curse 2x4 low. Such as the Explorer currently has. No idea if I can use it, or would I need one from a half ton? If someone has a link to a thread where this covered, that'd answer all my questions on that.

As for the '99 Mountaineer (nothing more than frame and driveline now ), it has a good rear, and the front axle/diff is no good, due the wreck.
Looks like a few spare parts, if need be. Frame is severely bent....had I known it was that bad, I'd have passed it over. Oh well, if I can sell the trans locally, it will have paid for itself, and I still have a good 5.0 with half the miles that my '97 Mounty has.

As always, thanks in advance for any tips, help, or tricks. Be well, y'all.

 

[RandomNerd2000]

Oh sweet, I'd want the engine harness, key cylinder, key, PCM and the PATS module, I think that's everything wiring related to make one pass the PATS, I'd pay shipping too without complaint since I've got a complete 5.0 in a 99 XLT but I'm swapping an Eddie Bauer, the wiring is different, and a local search has come up empty, can find parts trucks but they're always no keys or missing wiring. Just PM me when you get it all pulled and your swap done since I'd hate to short you on something you need.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

So I bought a '98 Explorer today, 5.0, AWD, etc. Nice rig, needs a hood release cable (have one, thanks to the '99 wreck I finished tearing apart!), and little else. Damn thing has remote start....very nice LOL.

I'll upload a coupla pics here in a few. Got a little dingeroo on the driver door, but otherwise in reallllly good shape. The proverbial old people had it, all maintenance done at a Ford dealer, etc. I did a quick looksee while I was home at lunch, Motorcraft oil filter on it, (good stuff, to me anyway). Interior is 9/10, driver seat showing a bit of wear but no rips, and of course the broken seat recliner lever. I set 'em with a pair of pliers and leave it alone, so non issue to me.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

Here's the '97 V6 and the (new) '98 5.0