97 XLT Vibration, Whining, Trans or Axle??

[mckittrickls]

97 XLT Groaning, Vibration, Whining, Trans or Axle??

I just bought a 97XLT w/4.0, 5R55E with 110000 mi.. On acceleration, there is a grinding/groaning sound that I suspect may be gear mesh noise, but is hard to tell. The closest sound I can compare it to is the way the old WW2 trucks and jeeps sound. It sounds like it is in the front left wheel axle area, but feels like the groaning is under my feet. It doesnt make this sound in reverse on soft or hard acceleration. On hard acceleration, it is pronounced, but when up to speed (not much torque) it almost/does dissapear/s. Left or right turns don't change the noise.

History; Right CV axle was replaced. Left is original. When trans is in neutral, gear backlash is @ 10-12 degrees (by rotating the front drive shaft back and forth). Any ideas??

PS: O4FATBOY describes the problem even better than me in post dated Feb06 QUOTE "Like I said before it sounds like its coming from the front left side but FEELS like its coming from beneath my feet(front drive shaft or transfer case). The noise sounds like a rotational, groaning, bearing type noise.
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Also noise changes with speed. When I coast in neutral the noise stops.

 

[IZwack]

I'm going to delete your other posts on the other thread (http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153888&page=1&pp=20) since this particular thread already exists.

Front left wheel/axle (I think) makes an almost grinding noise on acceleration, but dissapears at higher speeds (lower torque).

Perhaps the pinion bearing - check for any play on the pinion.

 

[mckittrickls]

Pinion Check?

Thanks for deleting IZwack. I'm just learning the ropes. Confusion due to old age.

You mean check the differential pinions? Can I do that by backlash measurements? Is there a pinion in the xfer case? Thanks.

 

[IZwack]

You mean check the differential pinions? Can I do that by backlash measurements? Is there a pinion in the xfer case? Thanks.

Yeah check the pinion for play.

Just disconnect the driveshaft, and push on the input flange/yoke up and down and side to side. If there is any play, then the bearing and/or bearing race has become loose or has gone bad.

Backlash isnt a measurement of pinion bearing but rather a measurement of how "far" the pinion is from the ring gear.

There is no pinion gear in the transfer case - only in the differential.

 

[mckittrickls]

front pinion bearing play

I got under the truck and, with the driveshaft on, have very slight s-s, t-b play which I believe is at the gearset end. Also, when I rotate the driveshaft it just doesnt feel right. There is about 12-15 degrees of shaft play, and when it starts to reach the end of play, I think I feel the gears/pinion sliding against each other. Is this a valid test, or is it my imagination..indeterminate? Should I verify by dropping the driveshaft.

Also, the differential sticker was still on the differential. Is this possible after 10 years/100000 mis?

The tag says Dana pn 610644_3 and cust pn f77-3002-na. I want on ebay and the number the used parts guys use is 1348C. What do I ask for at the junk yard? Is there only one axle used on the 97 model explorers. Also, it looks like there are 2 axle tube bolts w/bushings and one pumpkin strut bolt to get the diff off.. plus the cv axles. Am I missing anything? Is this a 1 day job?

 

[IZwack]

I got under the truck and, with the driveshaft on, have very slight s-s, t-b play which I believe is at the gearset end. Also, when I rotate the driveshaft it just doesnt feel right. There is about 12-15 degrees of shaft play, and when it starts to reach the end of play, I think I feel the gears/pinion sliding against each other. Is this a valid test, or is it my imagination..indeterminate? Should I verify by dropping the driveshaft.

Also, the differential sticker was still on the differential. Is this possible after 10 years/100000 mis?

The tag says Dana pn 610644_3 and cust pn f77-3002-na. I want on ebay and the number the used parts guys use is 1348C. What do I ask for at the junk yard? Is there only one axle used on the 97 model explorers. Also, it looks like there are 2 axle tube bolts w/bushings and one pumpkin strut bolt to get the diff off.. plus the cv axles. Am I missing anything? Is this a 1 day job?

The pinion should not be able to move s-s or t-b, the bearings are definitely worn. Unforunately, its not easy replacing the bearings and, as you suggested, it might be easier to simply replace the front stub axle with another.

Yes its possible for the sticker to still be on there after years and years.

Replacing the front differential takes anywhere between a day and maybe 2 or 3 days - depending on your experience and how rusted things are. There is a great writeup by Jefe on how to remove the front differential - I'll see if I can find it.

 

[IZwack]

found Jefe's writeup on how to remove the front differential:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53863

 

[MountaineerGreen]

when you buy your new front axle, make certain to get the right gears.... just a thought


The front axle has two bolts that hang the tube, one bracket that is on the pumpkin. It came out fairly easily for me, but I did have the lower A arms off. It isn't too bad of a job.

EDIT: the three bolts that hold the rear bracket on the pumpkin are put on with loctite, they may require heat to be removed. Just take the rearward bolt that holds the bracket to the frame and drop the assembly, then remove the bracket if the junkyard one dosent have one on it.

For the short term you could pull the front d shaft and that would help with some of the noise.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

The driveshaft will have some rotational play in it, that is "normal".

 

[IZwack]

when you buy your new front axle, make certain to get the right gears.... just a thought

Right! I forgot about this! Thanks for bringing it up

 

[MountaineerGreen]

could pose a small problem if they were different, but wouldn't for long if the auto 4x4 kicked in at high speed

 

[mckittrickls]

Gearing 3.73

A missmatch of gearing would definately solve my problem. I'd just need a complete new drivetrain then.

Why the different part numbers, i.e. the numbers I see on Ebay, and on the diff. sticker? What do I ask for at the junkyard?

 

[mckittrickls]

I think I'll remove the driveshaft as a troubleshooting measure. See if it quiets down.

Driving it today, I was wondering if it might be engine mounts. The sound I'm hearing feeling could be something hitting the frame. ???

 

[MountaineerGreen]

The way the front differential is bolted to the frame, a vibration from the front can be/sound severe. I had a driveshaft vibration after I installed my lift and it sounded like I had a worn out mud tire on the front. It can be very deceptive, I checked wheel bearings, busings, everything before I figured out it was the D shaft. Your pinion should not have any play in it at all up/down or side to side. Removing the driveshaft could take the load from the pinion, and reduce the noise.

As for the stub axle, I would personally buy one from a local salvage yard instead of ebay. The yard should offer a warranty that you probably won't get from ebay. Just ask for the front axle/differential assembly for your truck, if they are worth their salt, they can get you the right part.

I cant offer much help in the part numbers, a salvage yard can tell you what will/wont fit.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Instead of a new diff, you could take yours out, and take it to a shop and have it rebuilt. Some gear merchants sell rebuild kits that have bearings and everything needed to make it good as new.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

How'd it go?