A few questions from a car-audio newbie...

[trev913]

Well, I'm new here and felt the urge to post, as you guys seem like a fairly friendly bunch of people.
I'm also new to the car audio spectrum, so please be easy with me, as I have a few questions. Before throwing me to Google, know that I already have and that the answers I've gotten to the questions I've had are unsatisfactory and feel like they could be explained better by a human who I can direct further questions to... (run-on sentence full of thirty-dollar words, welcome to my life).

First, I know I have a HiFonics Taurus X amp running to a PPI sub (I don't know the model) (this setup is courtesy of my uncle). It's in a box I built myself (with my dad). My HU is an Eclipse CD2000 (pretty nice). I have the "Premium Sound" option on my Ex, running to the stock speakers in the back, and a set of Boston Acoustics CX8s (which I bought from someone for $25) in the front. Overall, I'd like to think it's decent. My parents know I'm coming from about 1/4 mile away because they can hear my sub. My girlfriend's parents complain when I sit outside of her house with my volume on 2.

But, my sound turns not-so-good when I turn my stereo up loudly (for those of you with Eclipse head units - 46 is about where I can go before things get hairy-sounding - most of the time). That is, for the door speakers, the sub seems to get along fine.

I also know that I can change this by purchasing an amp and new door speakers (The Boston Acoustics CX8s don't do much, as I'm pretty sure their specs are similar to the premium speakers included - 30W RMS and 60W Peak - let me know if I am wrong).


Some questions relating to this portion of things...

• What is the difference between 'component', 'midrange', and 'coaxial' speakers?
• On an amp, is each speaker the amp is powering a channel? (I'm pretty sure I know this, I just want to be sure)
• If I were to buy a new amp for my door speakers, would my wattage per channel (IE 50Wx4), be ideally in-between the RMS and peak wattage of the speakers? Or would it be at/below the RMS?
• What would my recommended setup be, if I wanted to get a decently loud system in my doors? I mean this just as far as the amp wattage and speakers go.
• What wiring would be needed?

I think more questions will come with the answers I get to these few, so I'm going to stop with this. Thanks in advance guys!

 

[DOZIER]

Coaxial Speakers


This type of speakers is the most common. Factory installed audio system usually install at least two pairs of this type in new vehicles. It's basically a midrange cone woofer with at least one tweeter mounted right on top of it. The result is a low to midrange sound reproduction from the midwoofer, as well as having high frequency reproduction from the tweeter.

Older cars usually only have the midwoofer without the tweeter attached to it. As car makers realize the significance of car audio within the last couple of decades, they improved factory-installed systems with coaxial speakers. Don't be fooled by car makers today who say their car features a 6-piece speaker system because the four speakers are generally midrange woofers, with speakers 5 and 6 being simply detached tweeters. Unless it is configured as a component system (explained below), comes with a factory-installed amplifier or subwoofer, you could not call that 6-piece system premium audio; and therefore you should not pay extra for something you would otherwise already have.

Additionally, coaxial speakers are normally described as 2-way, 3-way, 4-way, etc. speakers. Simplistically speaking, a two-way is one woofer with one tweeter attached to it. A 3-way adds another tweeter, and so on and so forth. You may ask why is it that it even needs a tweeter and to that I will explain.

A typical non-tweeter speaker will pick up around 15-10000 Hz (remember low frequency means more bass). Regular source units like CD players put out a full range sound, like everyday noise that you hear from 20-20000 Hz. Without tweeters, your system will attempt to reproduce that missing 10000 Hz with something it physically can't do. The result would be not only a missing high-frequency sound but also additional distortion or degradation to the overall sound quality of your system.

Tweeters allow your system to reproduce the otherwise impossible sound, giving you a much clearer and defined sound quality. Any additional tweeter adds more detail to the sound as it hones in on a particular range.

Component Speaker System


A component system typically includes midrange woofers, separate tweeters, and crossover filter networks. What is explained above concerning midwoofers and tweeters apply the same as component systems. The only difference, as you may have noticed, is the separate tweeters. It would function the same exact way as the coaxially mounted tweeters, except for the crossover filter networks.

These filters improve sound quality significantly by channeling only audio signals the different components could physically handle. For instance it would channel only high-frequency signals (10000-20000 Hz) to the tweeters and the lower frequencies (25-10000 Hz) to the midwoofers. The result is an even better sound quality because each component is not given signals that they could not physically reproduce.

Component systems tend to be significantly more pricey but with much improved sound reproduction. Additionally, you generally will not find 3 or more way component systems because it is unnecessary, thanks to the filter. This is why I said that factory installed audio systems would only be premium if a crossover network is present

Mid-range speaker

A midrange speakerA loudspeaker driver that produces the frequency range from approximately 300–5000 hertz is known as a mid-range. They are also called, less commonly, squawkers.

Midrange drivers are usually electro-dynamic cone types or, less commonly, electro-dynamic dome types, or compression horn drivers.

The diaphragm of a cone speaker is a truncated cone, with the voice coil attached at the narrow end with the spider portion of the cone suspension, and with the cone surround at the wide end. These midranges resemble small woofers. A dome is a usually spherical section with both suspension and voice coil located at the outer edge of the dome. These midranges resemble large dome tweeters. A very few midranges are electrostatic loudspeakers, Heil drivers, planar magnetic drivers, or ribbon drivers.

Generally speaking-
Mono car amplifiersower a single speaker.

Two-channel car amplifiers: powers two speakers and a subwoofer.

Four-channel car amplifiers: powers four speakers and two subwoofers; two speakers and a single subwoofer; or any configuration in between.

Keep your wattage at or below the rms...However you need to make sure that you do not over power your amplifier...distortion causes you to blow speakers. Your amp distorts when it is driven into saturation. Pretty much, you need an amplifier that is a little more powerful than your speakers.

I am not even going to start on speakers in doors. What is your budget? Do you want just loud? Or any quality and loud?

Ok...Lets discuss what all you are wanting to put into your car and make a complete list, then get into wiring.


Oh and I am Adam...Welcome to the site.

 

[jluv]

Generally speaking-

Two-channel car amplifiers: powers two speakers and a subwoofer.

Four-channel car amplifiers: powers four speakers and two subwoofers; two speakers and a single subwoofer; or any configuration in between.

Surely this is not what you meant to type.

A two-channel amp will run two channels (right and left speakers, normally). Sometimes these can be bridged to run one channel, like for a center or a sub. But a two-channel amp should not run two speakers and a sub at the same time.

Same thing with a four-channel amp. It will power 4 speakers, like right and left front and rear, or an active component setup. It should not power 4 speakers and any subs.

 

[steventadams]

Surely this is not what you meant to type.

A two-channel amp will run two channels (right and left speakers, normally). Sometimes these can be bridged to run one channel, like for a center or a sub. But a two-channel amp should not run two speakers and a sub at the same time.

Same thing with a four-channel amp. It will power 4 speakers, like right and left front and rear, or an active component setup. It should not power 4 speakers and any subs.

The two channel can run two speakers on channel 1 and a sub on channel 2...

And can't you run two speakers off channel 1, two speakers off channel 2, a sub on channel 3, and anther sub on channel 4? Just run the door speakers in series (i think its series anyway)...

It might not be the most ideal way to run everything but it should work from a circuit standpoint...

 

[jluv]

The two channel can run two speakers on channel 1 and a sub on channel 2...

You should never, ever do that. You won't even get stereo ouptut this way.

And can't you run two speakers off channel 1, two speakers off channel 2, a sub on channel 3, and anther sub on channel 4? Just run the door speakers in series (i think its series anyway)...

It might not be the most ideal way to run everything but it should work from a circuit standpoint...

It's beyond being not ideal. It doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to be rude, but this guy is just getting started and has asked for good advice.

 

[steventadams]

You should never, ever do that. You won't even get stereo ouptut this way.



It's beyond being not ideal. It doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to be rude, but this guy is just getting started and has asked for good advice.

I'm not saying its good or bad either way, just saying that sound will come out of the speakers if they are run the way that Dozier pointed out.

 

[jluv]

I'm not saying its good or bad either way, just saying that sound will come out of the speakers if they are run the way that Dozier pointed out.

Maybe not for long. Best case scenario it would work, but sound like crud.

 

[steventadams]

Basic idea behind amplifiers and speakers/subs:

Subwoofers:

Each sub acts as a load on a circuit. You can put as many subs on each channel of the amplifier as you want but I haven't heard of many occassions where the max has been more than two subs. To run more than one sub on each channel you run them in series or parallel. (http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=wire+diagram+subs+in+series&gbv=2&hl=en&sa=G)
Some light reading on parallel and series subs.

Generally if you want to run more than one subwoofer, make sure they are the same model so the sound doesn't cancel each other out.

Speakers:

For best quality, run one speaker per channel if you can off of the same amplifier (4 channel) so you get consistant power through the range of volumes you will be listening at.


Yes?

 

[jluv]

Basic idea behind amplifiers and speakers/subs:

Subwoofers:

Each sub acts as a load on a circuit. You can put as many subs on each channel of the amplifier as you want but I haven't heard of many occassions where the max has been more than two subs. To run more than one sub on each channel you run them in series or parallel. (http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=wire+diagram+subs+in+series&gbv=2&hl=en&sa=G)
Some light reading on parallel and series subs.

Generally if you want to run more than one subwoofer, make sure they are the same model so the sound doesn't cancel each other out.

Speakers:

For best quality, run one speaker per channel if you can off of the same amplifier (4 channel) so you get consistant power through the range of volumes you will be listening at.


Yes?

Better, ya. I'll add to that a little bit.

When running multiple subs off of one amp, just make sure to pay close attention to the wiring and amp/sub specs. Good equipment will come with manuals and wiring diagrams for different combinations. You normally won't wire subs up in stereo, there is just no need. You also want to maximize the output of the amp without putting a load on it that it won't handle.

I would never mix and match a sub and door speakers on one two-channel amp. There are three-channel and five-channel amps available for this purpose, though. Another option is to run a four channel amp so that you have right and left speakers on two of the channels and bridge the other two channels to a sub (or subs).

 

[DOZIER]

Ok to clear things up a bit. I was on my way to my school this morning and I was in a hurry. I started researching stuff to help me better explain to the Noob how it should be. That last statement in my post was copied and pasted from another site... I read a little of the first line and was in a hurry and said ok this should explain to him nicely. It was not coming from me. Disreguard that statement on the channels. I would delete it from my post but then it would look like you two were arguing about nothing. Ha ha ha...Sorry.

 

[jluv]

Ok to clear things up a bit. I was on my way to my school this morning and I was in a hurry. I started researching stuff to help me better explain to the Noob how it should be. That last statement in my post was copied and pasted from another site... I read a little of the first line and was in a hurry and said ok this should explain to him nicely. It was not coming from me. Disreguard that statement on the channels. I would delete it from my post but then it would look like you two were arguing about nothing. Ha ha ha...Sorry.

That makes sense! I had a hunch that it wasn't something you meant to say. Not arguing really - I just wanted to make sure we didn't get this guy started in the wrong direction.

Have you started your sound deadening project yet?

 

[trev913]

Ok, this is helping a bit guys - thanks! As far as other questions go, for my door speakers I'd like loud overall, but with some degree of quality, if that makes any sense.
And here's a hypothetical situation...
Say I wanted to run these speakers - http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3874 - which have an RMS of 112W, and a max of 225W - to my front doors (for the moment - back doors would be done at a later date). I would obviously need an amp to make them sound anywhere near the RMS. If I wanted to buy an amp that could run all four at a later date, I would buy something in the 400W range, running 100W to each channel?
Right now, I'm not in the market for another sub/sub amp, as I think what I've got is okay.
As well, is the brand of speaker I posted - Boss - any good? I was reading and it said they strive to deliver an "excellent price/performance" ratio. I've never heard of them before.
Once again, thanks for the help!

 

[jluv]

Focus on your fronts and let the rears be secondary. A lot of people don't run rear fill at all. Some people amp the fronts and replace them with good quality speakers and just keep the rears stock off of head unit power. This is an easy and cheap way to do it and you can focus your money and attention to the fronts.

I could be mistaken, but I believe that Boss stuff is flea market crap. Maybe I have it confused with something else as there are a lot of junk brands out there.

What is your budget for your front stage? Or I guess the better question would be: how much are you willing to spend?

 

[trev913]

Yeah, that's why I was saying do the rears at a later date - if at all. I'm not sure how much I'm wanting to spend. By looking at WoofersEtc, your average set of 5x7s is between $70 and $100, and no one really gave me an answer as far as the amp goes, so I have no real idea on that front. But, I can guess I could find a decent amp for $100? So, $200-$250 would be an idea. What would that get me?

 

[jluv]

Yeah, that's why I was saying do the rears at a later date - if at all. I'm not sure how much I'm wanting to spend. By looking at WoofersEtc, your average set of 5x7s is between $70 and $100, and no one really gave me an answer as far as the amp goes, so I have no real idea on that front. But, I can guess I could find a decent amp for $100? So, $200-$250 would be an idea. What would that get me?

To be honest it has been a while since I have looked at anything in that price range. $250 total for amp and speakers is not going to get you anything fantastic. It's all relative though, I suppose. Several years ago I was on a tight budget and I started out with some JL TR 5x7s. They got pretty dang loud. Also check out Alpine and Boston's entry level stuff. In that price range, just try to find a decent two-channel amp, say 100x2.

If you can at least double that budget you will have much better options.

 

[DOZIER]

That makes sense! I had a hunch that it wasn't something you meant to say. Not arguing really - I just wanted to make sure we didn't get this guy started in the wrong direction.

Have you started your sound deadening project yet?

My sound deadening has not arrived yet. Should be here on Wednesday. I will bump my thread once it arrives and add pictures.

As for the speakers...I say also check out these brands for the entry level stuff and you might come across a really good deal on Ebay at the Ebay Stores....Sonic Electronics and such...

Boston Acoustics, JL Audio, Kicker, Rockford Fosgate, MTX, MB Quart, Polk Audio, Memphis Audio, JBL, Soundstream.

All those make a pretty good entry level component set or even 5x7's. Just look around for amplifiers also at the same time.

 

[aznboi3644]

ok i'm not going to read through all this but you can power as many speakers you want with any amp you have as long as the amplifier can handle the load.

I use a 2 channel to power my four door speakers. There is nothing wrong with it. I just have no fader option but I don't care about that and 90% of people don't use it anyways.

a mono amp is not just for powering one speaker...you can power 1000000 speakers if you want...doesn't matter as long as the load is withing the operating range of the amplifier.

There is no limit on how many speakers you can hook up to an amp.

For an amp for any speaker...I would recommend an amp that puts out 20% or more power than your speakers can handle...head room is good and less likely to clip the signal.

Wiring depends on the amplifier but 16 gauge is the biggest you need for any type of full range speaker.

subs 16-12 gauge is all you really need unless you are pushing over 2000 watts.

as for power wire...it depends on the maximum current draw of the system

 

[jluv]

ok i'm not going to read through all this but you can power as many speakers you want with any amp you have as long as the amplifier can handle the load.

You probably should read through it. It won't take you that long. The discussion was mainly about wiring two speakers to one channel of a two-channel amp and a sub to the other channel. If you think that's kosher, you don't need to be doing your own installs.

I use a 2 channel to power my four door speakers. There is nothing wrong with it. I just have no fader option but I don't care about that and 90% of people don't use it anyways.

Sure, you can do it that way. It's not ideal if you're going for SQ, but it can work.

a mono amp is not just for powering one speaker...you can power 1000000 speakers if you want...doesn't matter as long as the load is withing the operating range of the amplifier.

Well, first you have to know what you're doing. And there's really no logical reason or advantage to hook up way more speakers than you have channels. And as far as mono amps go, either you use them for subs or a center channel. Hopefully no one would run a pair of fronts or rears with a mono amp.

There is no limit on how many speakers you can hook up to an amp.

I wouldn't go that far.

For an amp for any speaker...I would recommend an amp that puts out 20% or more power than your speakers can handle...head room is good and less likely to clip the signal.

This is not a bad idea. But great results can also be achieved by getting an amp that is rated to produce slightly less than what a sub will handle. A lot of subs perform wonderfully at less than the max (or even RMS) rating. Contrary to popular belief, not all subs need tons and tons of power to perform well. The key to avoiding clipping and getting the best sound from the amp is to set the gains properly.

Wiring depends on the amplifier but 16 gauge is the biggest you need for any type of full range speaker.

subs 16-12 gauge is all you really need unless you are pushing over 2000 watts.[/

There is nothing wrong with going bigger. It is possible to go too small, though.