Brake pads need warm up !?!

[1998Exp]

The time came to replace the front brake pads. Rotors looked good and there was no vibration, so I left them untouched. The last set of pads was Raybestos 'Brute Stop' (carbon-metallic), which worked like a charm. Sadly, they don't make those anymore. Having had this good experience with Raybestos, I purchased a set of their semi-metallic 'performance' series (ATD652M). To my utter dismay, these things have practically zero stopping power until they warm up with at least several medium-effort stops. When they warm up they work very well, but who wants to rear-end somebody the first thing on a cold morning? I have seen this problem on another vehicle a long time ago, but that was with cheap 'lifetime warranty' pads. Complained to Rock Auto, and they informed me that they contacted Raybestos, who claim that this problem is due to the rotors not being resurfaced. I know that in general, poor 'cold bite' is an issue with some types of brake pads, but has anybody heard of it being related to the rotor not being resurfaced? Sounds like a lame excuse to me. In any case, I don't want my rotors turned on one of those off-the-vehicle machines, which are known to do more harm than good.
Whether I get my money back or not, I am now looking for pads with good 'cold bite' characteristics. The Hawk website claims that. Any experience with those? Thanks a bunch!

 

[koda2000]

even rotors that appear to be in good condition be might not true to the new pads. even if they are true, they work best with a fresh non-directional pattern on them. your rotors may be glazed or even have hot spots.

high performance brake pads are meant for performance/racing. i don't know how "high performance" the pads you purchased are, but racing pads do not work worth a crap until they get hot. for that reason they're not suitable for street use.

if i were you, i'd get the rotors cut/trued first. if that doesn't help i'd replace the pads with something more geared for street use. i have AutoZone C-Max ceramic pads on the fronts of my trucks and i'm very happy with them (plus AutoZone will replace them when they wear out, for free, as long as i own the vehicles).

 

[my98nnj]

If you want the new pads to perform correctly you must bed them into a new or resurfaced rotor. Your old pads have left their mark on the old rotors.

Simply stated, bed-in is the process of depositing an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer, on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc

A good read on the topic by professionals is here:
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-s...y-definitions-and-procedures/brake-pad-bed-in

 

[1998Exp]

Thanks for your advice, Koda! I will look for someone around here that can turn rotors on the vehicle, though I am not holding my hope too high - those who have that equipment like to do a complete brake job service...

Incidentalyy, these are not racing pads. Rock Auto puts them in their high performance/heavy duty (read: more expensive) category, but the Raybestos website calls them 'advanced technology' and sings all manner of praises, never mentioning any warm-up issue.

...high performance brake pads are meant for performance/racing. i don't know how "high performance" the pads you purchased are, but racing pads do not work worth a crap until they get hot. for that reason they're not suitable for street use...

 

[koda2000]

as you have AWD, removing the rotors to have them turned off the truck is pretty easy. you just have to remove the 2 bolts that hold the caliper mounting bracket on. then the rotor will come right off. just be sure to use thread locker on the bolts and torque them down when you put the mounting bracket back on. O'Reilly or NAPA turns rotors for around $15 (i'd go to NAPA to avoid having some teenager destroying your rotors).

 

[1998Exp]

Thanks again. Yes, I know how easy it is to remove the rotors on this vehicle -- have done it, more than once. The issue is with off-the-vehicle turning. I had luck with this before, but the Ford shop manual clearly advises against that. And on-vehicle turning means that someone (most likely the dealer) is doing the complete brake job -- to the tune of much more than a pair of new rotors would cost.

as you have AWD, removing the rotors to have them turned off the truck is pretty easy. you just have to remove the 2 bolts that hold the caliper mounting bracket on. then the rotor will come right off. just be sure to use thread locker on the bolts and torque them down when you put the mounting bracket back on. O'Reilly or NAPA turns rotors for around $15 (i'd go to NAPA to avoid having some teenager destroying your rotors).

 

[koda2000]

i don't see a problem with turning the rotors off the vehicle as long as the person turning them knows what they're doing. the brake lathe uses a cone to keep the rotor centered and a cup to keep it straight.

each rotor has speifications for machining. reputable shops have these specs.
1. the rotor should be measured to make sure it isn't at or below minimum thickness
2. the front and back of the rotor center must be clean
3. the rotor should be checked to make sure its w/in maximum run out spec
4. an anti-vibration band should be attached to the rotor before turning
5. only the minimum amount of material should be removed to true the rotor. this is usually done in multiple passes.
6. once cut, the rotor thickness should be rechecked and a non-directional pattern applied to the rotor surface. also, sand the pad surfaces in case they're glazed.

if the above steps are followed your rotors should be as good as new.

 

[1998Exp]

Thanks to Koda I am now well educated about the details of off-vehicle rotor resurfacing ('turning'). My local Napa is charging $22 a piece for the service - about half the cost of a decent new rotor. Moreover, they also told me that the rotors will have to be at least 0.030" above the minimum thickness after resurfacing or they get junked - highly unlikely for my used rotors, considering that even brand new rotors are only 0.060" thicker than the limit. So if I have to, I will just buy new rotors.
I also appreciate Koda's opinion about the Autozone C-max pads, as well as the hints that I got from the other posters. Thank you all!!!

Incidentally, I just realized that a tiny typo in my original post ('not' instead of 'now') entirely changed my question. So to recoup:
1) Has anybody experienced poor cold braking performance with new pads which goes away as soon as they warm up? If so, was it related to re-using rotors without resurfacing them? Note, I am talking about street, not racing brakes here.
2) What type or brand of pads is free from this problem and works well otherwise? I am not too concerned with dust or longevity. The original Ford pads that came with this vehicle were poor, but Motorcraft are probably much improved now. And how about Hawk? They specifically claim good 'cold bite'.


Some more details in the attached original post (with the typo corrected):

The time came to replace the front brake pads. Rotors looked good and there was no vibration, so I left them untouched. The last set of pads was Raybestos 'Brute Stop' (carbon-metallic), which worked like a charm. Sadly, they don't make those anymore. Having had this good experience with Raybestos, I purchased a set of their semi-metallic 'performance' series (ATD652M). To my utter dismay, these things have practically zero stopping power until they warm up with at least several medium-effort stops. When they warm up they work very well, but who wants to rear-end somebody the first thing on a cold morning? I have seen this problem on another vehicle a long time ago, but that was with cheap 'lifetime warranty' pads. Complained to Rock Auto, and they informed me that they contacted Raybestos, who claim that this problem is due to the rotors not being resurfaced. I know that in general, poor 'cold bite' is an issue with some types of brake pads, but has anybody heard of it being related to the rotor not being resurfaced? Sounds like a lame excuse to me. In any case, I don't want my rotors turned on one of those off-the-vehicle machines, which are known to do more harm than good.
Whether I get my money back or not, I am now looking for pads with good 'cold bite' characteristics. The Hawk website claims that. Any experience with those? Thanks a bunch!

 

[SoNic67]

The last set of pads was Raybestos 'Brute Stop' (carbon-metallic), which worked like a charm. Sadly, they don't make those anymore.

Actually Carbon-Metallic pads are still made by PerformaceFriction.
I use then right now (Amazon purchase) and they are awesome.

 

[Dave 1955]

My wifes old 01 outback had the same problem..it's now my daily driver..I know but it saves wear on my ex..lol.

I tried at least 3 diff sets of pads because when the car was cold and on high idle it would not stop for crap but after a few stops and off fast idle it was fine.
I even chased vacuum leaks thinking that might be it.
Turned the rotors and all was good...would not have believed it.

 

[kevinspann]

Actually Carbon-Metallic pads are still made by PerformaceFriction.
I use then right now (Amazon purchase) and they are awesome.

I have had them on mine, and I think they're terrible.

Anyone want to buy some lightly used PFCM pads?

 

[SoNic67]

I could trade you my used Advance Auto Parts ceramics... but they are in the garbage can.
BTW, I replaced the rotors when I installed the CM pads because I didn't like the glaze and wear that was on by rotor and I don't believe in 'turning in' the rotors. A pair of Raybestos Advanced Technology.