Codes - P0420 and P0430 - trying Cataclean first

[Mike D S]

Bought the bullet and ordered the USB adapter to try out Forscan. The program is pretty nice and clearly has way more features than I'm going to need anytime soon. But on the other hand it destroyed my dream of my catalytst monitor codes being bad O2 sensors.

The bank 2 cat is way out of range, so I'm going to order one from RockAuto and change it. The bank 1 cat is just a bit outside the allowable range (<10%) so I'm going to run a few treatments of Cataclean and see what we get. Access to the bank 1 cat looks like its really tough to get to without getting the truck on a lift so I'm hopeful the cataclean makes a difference and can get me just under the limit. The inspection sticker is due, so if I can replace the front and get enough improvement in the back to get the inspection done I'll be satisfied for the moment as that'll give me time.

13 Limited 3.5L has 156k miles and still runs fine and getting about 19 mpg (according to the dashboard) so their not clogged, but the downstream O2 sensors are clearly mirroring the upstream sensors. I'm waiting for this tank of gas to get a little lower and then I'll run the cataclean treatments and report back. I took screenshots of the monitor O2 capacity readings, so I'll be able to compare the numbers after running the cataclean and retesting.

 

[RonParise]

My 2011 limited was running a little bit rough and it threw a code indicating a miss fire. So new plugs and coils (it was time) A short time later as I was accelerating on to the interstate I got rapid fire backfires and it happened several times that day turned out to be a catalytic converter

There is no emissions test in Florida and my car is at 375000 miles, so I was reluctant to spend the money So I tried Cataclean.. It worked

 

[Mike D S]

So I've got positive things to say about the Cataclean treatments.

Before first treatment:

After first treatment:

I did a second treatment and and measured again but forgot to take a screenshot since the bank 2 cat had arrived and I was going to swap it. But the bank 1 cat had come down to about 0.61 and I think it would not have been throwing the cat efficiency code. While I know I'll have to replace the other cat probably, I'm just trying to get it inspected in the short term so I can get the registration renewed as its out by a month.

So here's where it gets dumb. I had the front (bank 2) cat in hand and decide to swap the front cat out. In order to physically get the front cat out I need to drop the exhaust Y to have the necessary clearance. So I put some penetrating oil on the all the exhaust pipe bolts and let that sit then give them a few taps to loosen them up a bit. There's a little rust on the bolts but not that bad so I don't think that much about it. I get the front cat loose from the exhaust pipe without too much trouble and get the first nut loose on the rear cat with a little work but otherwise ok. Then I go to remove the second nut and it comes loose 2-3 turns and then basically locks in place. Won't go up, won't go down. mess around with it for a bit with a torch, penetrating oil, etc. Still stuck at first and then it feels like its starting to come loose about an 1/8 turn when the bolt just snaps off at the back of the nut.

So what starts as a 1 cat job is now a two cat job and I'm waiting on rock auto to deliver the second cat tomorrow to get up and running. So with any luck and assuming I don't do more stupid stuff I'll be ready to rock and roll by Saturday afternoon.

 

[ProjectSHO89]

I usually just install anti-foulers on the Downstream O2 sensor to cheat the OBDII system. Make sure you don't overlook any engine problems that may have fouled the cats...

Your fun with that stud is about as bad as mine from earlier this week. Had the 2010 Escape 3.0L up on jackstands to replace a leaking oil pan gasket. Went to drop the Y-pipe and one of the nuts that hold the y-pipe flange to the bottom of the front pre-cat decided to loosen about 6-8 turns then spun the threads on the stud. Cussed a few times, finally broke out the reciprocating saw and cut off the stud and finished the pan drop. Ended up having to drill the stud out of the bottom flange of the precat. $60 worth of cobalt drill bits with cutting oil and two hours later I managed to get the stud out so I could use a stainless bolt and nut to put the whole thing back together. At least the freaking new gasket isn't leaking...

Anyway, good luck...

 

[Mike D S]

Decided last night to do a little get ready work so when the new cat shows up I'm ready to go. I'm doing the work at my house and just have the front of the Ex up on ramps. The bank 1 rear cat removal is no joke if you're doing it at home. On a lift in a real shop its probably not too bad, but for a DIY job its a make it work moment. It doesn't help that I have big hands and forearms so reaching up between the cat and the framing was not going to work.

I ended up using a combination of long extensions and doing most of the work through the driveshaft tunnel including removing the old cat. It didn't take all that long, but I can already see it's going to be a bit of a knuckle buster getting them back on and torqued up. This is a job where a set of impact flex adapters would probably help. A few of the top bolts on the rear cat needed the socket to be at an upwards angle and since I was coming at it from the bottom with extensions I had to use a shorter 1/2 impact socket with a knuckle to get the right angle to the nut/bolt and still clear the header.

But all in all I'm ready to go back in with the new cat when it shows up later today. Overall I'd rate the rear cat as a 3-4 hour DIY job.

 

[Mike D S]

Don't know who's watching this but I wanted to give an update.

First off I'll start with my Rock Auto order for the second cat. Once again I find myself ranting a bit on RockAuto and Fedex. I continue to have issues with the Fedex deliveries from Rockauto. As told to me by the RA support team, RA's contract with fedex prevents them from filing claims based on late delivery, so with my two packages I paid for next business day and which both came late I'm basically out of luck as RA doesn't guarantee delivery and won't file a claim on Fedex to take advantage of Fedex's delivery guarantee. Its annoying to get the package late and not have any recourse. Additionally, RA's policy prevents a package from being changed to hold for pickup so normally you could go get it yourself on Saturday for a next business day delivery that was late, but due to the RA policy you can't even do that.

While RockAuto has good prices and I'm sure people have good experiences with them, I've made 3 orders and had 1 good, 1 late delivery and 1 with late delivery and contained a timing chain kit which looks like it had used parts instead of new. So I'm not sure I'd use them again for something where timing was important.

But with any luck, Fedex will finally deliver the new cat today and if it gets here before 6 PM I'll have it installed and buttoned up tonight.

 

[peterk9]

Have you compared prices with Tasca Mike? Several members order parts from them. Also, Levittown Ford is a forum vendor and offers members a discount.

Peter

 

[Mike D S]

I'll check them next time. Thought hopefully I won't be doing too much more work anytime soon. At 156k I've changed the water pump and timing kit a few months ago and now both cats and the O2 sensors. So hopefully I can get another 20-30k trouble free miles as I'm planning on getting something else maybe next year if the current supply chain issues ease up a little.

 

[MarioMatos]

Best Solution For P0420 And P0430 Codes

 

[Mike D S]

New cat arrived yesterday around 4:30 and I had it in the Explorer by 6. The only trouble I ran into is that the flange on the AP/Eastern replacement cat wasn't at exactly the same angle as the original EOM cat so the exhaust header didn't seal the first time and there was a small leak at the front. After loosening the mounting bracket and the exhaust I used a crowbar to give the cat a little push and got it to seal up the second time. Then I tightened the mounting bracket, etc.

Took a test drive and looked at the O2 sensors with Forscan and everything looks good. The upstream sensors show typical O2 responses while the downstream sensors are pretty flat and not trending with the upstream sensors, so I should be good to go.

 

[Mike D S]

Best Solution For P0420 And P0430 Codes

Not to get into an argument, but this is not a solution for the codes. All this does is alter how the O2 sensors respond to the actual exhaust gas contents. It masks the symptoms but doesn't solve anything. At the end of the day, this is a way to fool the computer into thinking the cats are ok when they may not be.

I'm not some super-environment guy but I'm also not ok with knowingly adding to pollution levels if I can avoid it. In my case, my cats were degraded (thought not clogged) and needed to be replaced. I've spent enough time in big cities around the world to know what bad air pollution means for quality of life and while spending the money was painful I'll do my part to not make things worse in my own town.

 

[ProjectSHO89]

. The upstream sensors show typical O2 responses while the downstream sensors are pretty flat and not trending with the upstream sensors, so I should be good to go.

At least for now. No way to know the longevity of after-market cats.

Make sure you have resolved the underlying condition that caused the originals to fail.

 

[Mike D S]

At least for now. No way to know the longevity of after-market cats.

Make sure you have resolved the underlying condition that caused the originals to fail.

I got 150k miles on the cats and the major issue was the inability to pass the emissions check based on cat MIL. I'm not saying I don't have any engine issues, but not sure that I have a significant underlying condition. The cats weren't clogged or really impacting how it ran except for what seems to be gradual degradation of the catalyst effectiveness. Idle and acceleration seems good, I'm not burning oil, and throttle trim seems ok. So I'm assuming that I am leaving some amount of deposits on the cats over time which is impacting their performance, but not enough to materially impact the exhaust flow. Not sure how I would diagnose a problem in absence of any notable symptoms. Still getting +-19 mpg (60/40 highway to street as per dashboard) everything else seems to be normal. Second set of new plugs with the water pump change a few months ago.
A lot of conflicting info on how long a cat could/should last out there. A ton of "life of the vehicle" which then talk about 100k miles as average. Some posts on people with cats going 200k+ and a lot of middle of the road with obvious cat failures (plugged, mechanical damage). Just not all that much discussion on failures other than mechanical damage.

On a side note, with all the news reports about people stealing cats and selling them, you'd think it would be easy to find a place to get rid of the old cats. But so far I called 4 or 5 recycling places and they're not buying cats. So I'll have to keep looking around or contact one of the online places.