Common rattle noise from front of trans

[Genesis04]

Hello everyone,
I'm looking for some advice in pinpointing this noise that is coming from the front end of the transmission. I'll start off by saying I have searched this, and it seems that there are one of 4 possibilities...
-Flex plate
-Torque Converter
-Pump
-Exhaust/Cat heat shield
I have ruled out the Exhaust and I'm on the fence about the TC as ill explain below...

So I just had the transmission rebuilt after I lost OD and 2nd one day as I was getting on the highway (failure turned out to be the OD planetary gear set, stripped all to hell) I first started noticing the noise after the failure when I would open the door with the engine running. (unfortunately I can't say for certain if I heard it before this as I wasn't really "looking" for something out of place until the trans went).
After the rebuild, it seems like its only gotten worse. The guy who did the work is definitely reliable, but he was unsure what the cause was and suggested it might be a hairline crack in the flex plate. He was nice enough to offer to do the work for no additional labor if I supply the part which is why I'm trying to narrow it down.

So, I know a lot of people like to blame the TC for this noise, and those same people say not to worry about it, but since the TC was just replaced it must be something else. I suppose I COULD have gotten a bad rebuild (I don't know where he got the rebuilt TC from, but I could ask if someone thinks its relevant. Also, its hard to say if the noise stops during TCC lock up, can't hear much over the old tires.

Some more background info:
The sound is definitely coming from the bell housing area and is more of a rotational noise than stationary rattle, which is why I rulled out exhaust.
There was one instance (before the rebuild) when I pulled into park and the noise got really loud when i shifted into Park or Neutral, but would go quiet(er) if I shifted into any gear. I did this back and forth and nothing changed until I shut off the engine. (I was seriously worried that something was going to jam into place and keep it from starting up, but I left it until the end of the day and it started just fine with no louder noise anymore) it has never done this as loud again.

Lastly, I also faintly hear a bearing whine (when stationary and in all gears) this could very easily be just power steering or water pump and completely unrelated.
I think I covered all the relevant details, but of anyone has any questions please let me know. I can also post a video of the sound, but I have a feeling anyone who has dealt with this before will know exactly what I'm on about.

Oh, and 167,000 miles (mostly highway, no towing (stupid U-Haul). Fluid was never changed until the rebuild. Figured no dipstick = no worries, lesson learned.

Thanks ahead of time for all your contributions!

 

[BarryCarey]

I can't answer your question but I think we're in the same boat.

Your description sounds exactly like the noise I have coming from the bell housing.

Take a look at this video and see if it's similar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJTSRSVFrMs

(Note: I made the video when I thought it was a possible rod bearing.)

Ford Dealer suspected cracked flex plate or issue with the tranny pump.

Spoke with a local tranny shop and he thought TC or Flex Plate. He told me to bring it in so he could hear it in person. However, blew out a pinion seal on interstate going to see him. Currently dealing with that so I'm yet to have him listen to the noise.

 

[96firephoenix]

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427818

so that sounds pretty similar to what my 5spd is doing.

 

[Genesis04]

I can't answer your question but I think we're in the same boat.

Your description sounds exactly like the noise I have coming from the bell housing.

Take a look at this video and see if it's similar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJTSRSVFrMs

(Note: I made the video when I thought it was a possible rod bearing.)

Ford Dealer suspected cracked flex plate or issue with the tranny pump.

Spoke with a local tranny shop and he thought TC or Flex Plate. He told me to bring it in so he could hear it in person. However, blew out a pinion seal on interstate going to see him. Currently dealing with that so I'm yet to have him listen to the noise.

Yes that sounds very familiar. Kind of gets quieter around 2000rpm in Neutral/Park, but is more noticable throughout the rpm range when in gear and driving around. I can hear it up to about 40 or 50 before the road noise drowns it out.
If you are able to get it to someone to put ears on it, let us know. It would be great if we could narrow it down.

 

[Genesis04]

The noise from the 5spd manual sounds a bit "heavier" not quite the same tone. Plus being that its a manual, whole different beast, no TC, no flex plate, no pump. Unfortunately you may have to keep digging, but very cool to see one of the last of the manual Explorers!

 

[IPcamper]

I have an old PT cruiser that sounded just like that after a transmission rebuild. It got progressivle worse over a few months. It turnout to be the TC bolts were not torqued correctly started to work lose.

 

[BarryCarey]

Yes that sounds very familiar. Kind of gets quieter around 2000rpm in Neutral/Park, but is more noticable throughout the rpm range when in gear and driving around. I can hear it up to about 40 or 50 before the road noise drowns it out.
If you are able to get it to someone to put ears on it, let us know. It would be great if we could narrow it down.

Mine behaves exactly as you describe. Not too loud in park but when accelerating it can get very loud.

I just got my new rear end in today. Hope to take it to the tranny shop sometime this coming week. I'll keep you updated with what I find out.

 

[Genesis04]

I have an old PT cruiser that sounded just like that after a transmission rebuild. It got progressivle worse over a few months. It turnout to be the TC bolts were not torqued correctly started to work lose.

That's interesting, I remember reading somewhere (cant find where it was now) someone mentioned the same thing about the TC bolts. They also suggested that over time the loose bolts can "warp" the bolt holes and threads so just re-torquing the bolts wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

I wonder if that might be the case with the bolt holes on my flex plate? That would explain why replacing the TC didn't fix the problem. Or, again it is also possible the replacement TC had the damaged bolt holes already and no one noticed when installing it. Hmm...

Thanks for your insight!

 

[Genesis04]

Mine behaves exactly as you describe. Not too loud in park but when accelerating it can get very loud.

I just got my new rear end in today. Hope to take it to the tranny shop sometime this coming week. I'll keep you updated with what I find out.

That would be great, thank you. Good luck with that pinion seal!

 

[BarryCarey]

The Dealership checked the TC bolts on mine and said they were tight.

Here are the comments I got from the dealer..

"Found noise worse at lower RPM under load. Isolated to front of transmission. Removed inspection plate and examined torque converter nuts. All tight. Suspect front trans pump damage. Maybe torque converter or flexplate damaged as well. Will need to be removed and diagnosed further"

 

[Genesis04]

The Dealership checked the TC bolts on mine and said they were tight.

Here are the comments I got from the dealer..

"Found noise worse at lower RPM under load. Isolated to front of transmission. Removed inspection plate and examined torque converter nuts. All tight. Suspect front trans pump damage. Maybe torque converter or flexplate damaged as well. Will need to be removed and diagnosed further"

So that at least helps narrow it down a bit to either flex plate or pump since I had my TC replaced. I'll also contact my trans shop on Monday to see where he gets the TC for his rebuilds from, check if he has ever gotten a bad one, just to put that to rest for sure.

 

[Fionasdad]

I've had the same problem with our 03; for us it was the torque converter...$1,900 to repair at Ford...

 

[BarryCarey]

I've had the same problem with our 03; for us it was the torque converter...$1,900 to repair at Ford...

Did you have a full failure before you got it fixed? Or did you get it fixed because of the noise?

I've been driving mine as is with the noise as I don't want to dump a load of money into fixing it. I was planning on the tranny failing at some point because it seems that's what these do. I figured it would be better to wait until it blows and buy a reman with a TQ. Rather than repair now and still having tranny fail later.

A semi-local tranny shop said they would check it for free. Just haven't had the time to take it in.

 

[BarryCarey]

Well I cursed myself. Took it on the interstate today and it started leaking tranny fluid pretty badly. Going to hobble it home and see if I can see where its coming from

 

[Fionasdad]

Sorry man.

Ours was making more and more noise. We had just put a rebuilt engine into it so we were hoping we could hold out for a little while longer. We noticed some tranny fluid on the garage floor and figured we'd better have it checked out. Turns out our mechanic had topped of the fluid level a little too much. The dealership pointed out the torque converter is the source of the noise. Just picked it up this morning sounds great!

Although the $1,885.24 hurts the wallet...

 

[BarryCarey]

That would be great, thank you. Good luck with that pinion seal!

Just got back from the tranny guy. He said to him it sounds like fluid cavitation. Possibly due to the fluid being low.

He recommend pulling the pan as a first course of action. As long as it's clean put a fresh filter and fluid in it. If it continues then it requires being more invasive and possibly pulling the tranny.

Looks like I have a project for the weekend. One of the tranny cooler lines started leaking today so I have to get under there anyway.

 

[BarryCarey]

Ok, I dropped the pan, changed the filter and put new fluid in. Made zero difference. Noise is exactly the same. I now have a bonus pump wine after changing everything.

Looks like it's time to take it to an expert.

 

[Fionasdad]

Sorry to hear that.

At least you tried to save money...Still cheaper than buying a new vehicle!

Happy 4th of July!

 

[BarryCarey]

That would be great, thank you. Good luck with that pinion seal!

Just wanted to update you. Took it into the tranny shop this morning. They confirmed it's the Torque Converter.

They're pulling apart the tranny tomorrow for a full inspection. It's going to be an expensive venture, anywhere from $700 to $2200. $700 for just TQ and labor or up to $2200 for a full rebuild depending on the condition of the tranny.