Consumer Reports - 10 Least Reliable 3-rowers - Explorer take 2 of them

[RandyH2]

"Also saying that there are many errors in my argument and then telling me you can't explain those errors is a BS response. Consumer Reports made an errant study w/ no basis and which has complete bias. It's unethical."



Yet you can fault the C.R. study with no knowledge of their data and methods, going so far as to call it unethical. Just saying.

I'll provide one very technical example of error in your argument: "...if only two respondents return reviews for a jeep ...the chances of the jeep having a valid scoring is 0." To be scientifically accurate and precise, the possibility exists that every Jeep would experience the same number of problems as the two respondents reported. Highly unlikely, but not impossible.

BTW- I'm not trying to start an argument or be a jerk. The inaccurate statements of the politicians have me dissecting sentences.

 

[13Sport]

I'll provide one very technical example of error in your argument: "...if only two respondents return reviews for a jeep ...the chances of the jeep having a valid scoring is 0." To be scientifically accurate and precise, the possibility exists that every Jeep would experience the same number of problems as the two respondents reported. Highly unlikely, but not impossible.

I didn't say anything about the possibility of them experiencing the same number of problems, I said there was no possibility that the jeep would have a valid scoring model

Not doing a great job of dissecting statements lol .. I'm kidding btw... My only point is that the survey has bias, which makes it a non scientific study, and shouldn't be used as a report for making a purchasing decision.

 

[RandyH2]

"Scoring model" is different than "scoring".
But where is your proof of bias?

 

[13Sport]

"Scoring model" is different than "scoring".
But where is your proof of bias?

You can't have a non-biased study if there is no control group, or controlled variables. Proof of bias is that only CR subscribers received surveys. I didn't receive a survey, and you admitted yourself that you didn't return a survey because you thought it might negatively affect your vehicles grouping (adding to bias in the results).

5 of your friends may be hardcore car fanatics that use every available option in the MFT system, and can cause crashes daily, and 5 of my friends may be technologically slow and never use MFT for anything but FM radio and never have a crash. If I only listen to my 5 friends, I may only see a positive review about MFT.

 

[IZwack]

Proof of bias is that only CR subscribers received surveys.

That's not bias. Bias results in a sway towards one end of the spectrum or the other ("like" or "not like"). Just because the survey pool are subscribers is irrelevant as to whether they score their vehicles good or bad.

 

[13Sport]

That's not bias. Bias results in a sway towards one end of the spectrum or the other ("like" or "not like"). Just because the survey pool are subscribers is irrelevant to whether they score their vehicles good or bad.

Don't leave out the rest of the context.... RandyH2 admitted to not returning the survey for fear it might detrimentally affect his group. Creating Bias... It also means that there's no way to determine if the survey responses are from people that actually own the vehicles, what if Toyota hired 10,000 people to subscribe to CR and return negative surveys for Ford vehicles?

Without a controlled environment or controlled sample group, it's completely biased... What is so difficult about understanding that in this situation? It's survey's sent to customers, where they may write whatever they choose to write on the survey, there is no scientific control for the study.

 

[IZwack]

5 of your friends may be hardcore car fanatics that use every available option in the MFT system, and can cause crashes daily, and 5 of my friends may be technologically slow and never use MFT for anything but FM radio and never have a crash. If I only listen to my 5 friends, I may only see a positive review about MFT.

Surveys are to be taken with a grain of salt, sometimes the results are skewed towards one extreme. So the best thing you can do is make sure you don't just ask your friends about their perspective but instead broaden your pool.

In this case, I think CR's survey is legit as we can't really expect to them ask each and every person in the country. They just have to sample their pool - which is their subscribers.

 

[IZwack]

Don't leave out the rest of the context.... RandyH2 admitted to not returning the survey for fear it might detrimentally affect his group. Creating Bias...

That is just the nature of surveys - you don't have 100% control of your pool - you take the data as is and just hope for the best.

It also means that there's no way to determine if the survey responses are from people that actually own the vehicles, what if Toyota hired 10,000 people to subscribe to CR and return negative surveys for Ford vehicles?

Well then that survey is skewed, and we as consumers would never know it. Again, it is a survey, not the law of the land.

Without a controlled environment or controlled sample group, it's completely biased... What is so difficult about understanding that in this situation?

No, controlled groups are merely impossible to do (logistics, etc...) considering the nature of the survey. How would one create/conduct a control group? It's merely impossible and this control group would have to be recreated for each and every product tested - from tooth brush to SUVs, everything.

It's survey's sent to customers, where they may write whatever they choose to write on the survey, there is no scientific control for the study.

Yes, hence it is a survey. It is not a lab study where the each and every variable is under complete control. Which means you can not create a "control" group since not all of the variables can be controlled.

 

[IZwack]

FWIW, I'm going to rename this thread from "Expedition" to "Explorer" as the OP probably meant "Explorer" as there is no mention of the Expedition in the linked article.

 

[Sgt1411]

5 of your friends may be hardcore car fanatics that use every available option in the MFT system, and can cause crashes daily, and 5 of my friends may be technologically slow and never use MFT for anything but FM radio and never have a crash. If I only listen to my 5 friends, I may only see a positive review about MFT.[/QUOTE]

Agree 100%

 

[willyexpy]

If you go to any vehicle specific forum you will find roughly the same number of issues that you can find about the explorer here, it's what forums were built for. If you don't control the population of a study, you can't use the study for any significant reporting, which is seen by the AWD and 2WD models being so significantly different in results, when they are largely the exact same cars w/ the exact same issues reported here.

Actually, I have owned a bunch of new vehicles in the past four or five years and always join the forums associated with them. This is the first vehicle where there is more complaining and dissatisfaction than mods and advocates.

Sorry, I'm not trying be an a-hole but I've never seen so much negative chatter. This is the first Ford I have ever owned so maybe it's a brand thing? I dunno, I like the Ex so far. I'd like to lift it a bit, bigger wheels and tires, you know, mod this thing. I've decided based on the paltry aftermarket that I'm going to need a third vehicle to fix the itch.

 

[Sgt1411]

You raise some good points, I think the negativity often originates with the frustration over the response to issues and the miscommunication to customers.

You get a different Ford answer depending on where you go, and who you speak with.

The MFT fiasco is something that kills me. I, like many here, bought the Ex because of how Ford pushed the bleeding edge of mobile technology. What I was shown in the promotional material didn't match up with the vehicle that was delivered.

Almost 2 years later were still not there. We are asking for new features to add to MFT that my wife's 2011 Terrain has had for 2 years.

Stringing loyal customers along with "Theres another update coming" is tiring and creates negativity. It also makes other smaller issues seem magnified thus the negativity expressed here or on the CR survey.

I think many of us would appreciate honesty, and a clear communication strategy.

 

[RandyH2]

"You raise some good points, I think the negativity often originates with the frustration over the response to issues and the miscommunication to customers.

You get a different Ford answer depending on where you go, and who you speak with.

The MFT fiasco is something that kills me. I, like many here, bought the Ex because of how Ford pushed the bleeding edge of mobile technology. What I was shown in the promotional material didn't match up with the vehicle that was delivered."

My thoughts, too. While Rebecca, Cory, et al, have done an admireable job of trying to help those of us with problems, the real problem was/is the poison in the well from the start. I'll stop now as I have already deleted multiple long rants!

 

[Jrister24]

Something else to think about is price of a vehicle. 2 people could have the exact same issue with a car. The guy who had it happen to his 40K explorer is going to be more likely to check that "problem" box than someone on their 15K Kia. Simply because "ehh, that's just a kia".

Every poll, survey, etc in life is bias, one way or another.

 

[Kneb]

SO the unreliability is more based around the tech side i.e. The Touch system?

 

[IZwack]

SO the unreliability is more based around the tech side i.e. The Touch system?

Good question - I'm not a subscriber so I can't access the details of the report. But I know someone who does subscribe to the printed version so I'll try to remember to check it out sometime.

 

[SHOinSUV]

I am a subscriber. Looking at the actual relability ratings doesn't show it being bad at all. From 2008+, the only problem areas in years are "drive system in 2009" and "engine cooling in 2011". 2010 and 2012 are all above average.

 

[JCat]

Since I joined this site in 2002, I have never seen so many complaint posts until this new "generation" started selling.

 

[bodybump]

The hell i care...I love my Exp...its one SUV you cant resist staring at on the road...it might be lacking some things and issues..but wouldnt trade it for anything else...the closest i can get to a Range Rover..LOL

 

[Sgt1411]

Range Rovers are on the top of the list of vehicles that suffer the greatest depreciation when you drive them off the lot and they have very unreliable electronics. So even with its issues the Ex has it beat IMHO.

Except for the knob factor.