Does the Ecoboost cut boost/power when cold? Test driven car seemed slow.

[TheOtherEric]

Just wondering if the car needs to be fully up to temp for the car to make full power. Test driving my first EX Sport, the acceleration was a bit disappointing. Granted my DD does 0-60 in 3.5 sec so my perception is a bit skewed, but still the EX Sport didn't seem like it could do 0-60 in 6.0 sec. And my DD does withhold boost if the engine isn't up to temp, so perhaps the Ecoboost does the same?

Not that I'm making excuses for the Explorer, but ... well yeah I'm making excuses for the Explorer.

 

[Napalm]

I don't know 100% for certain.

but I do believe there is a timer/sensor loop to make sure the oil, turbo bearings, and what not is up to temp and fully moving.

also based on your other car - I'd say without an actual timer in your hand - your perception is indeed skewed. (as is mine when I test drive one and my sub 5 second sport sedan)

so other query - what is your DD? Porsche, Audi, or Merc?

 

[1995E]

Just wondering if the car needs to be fully up to temp for the car to make full power. Test driving my first EX Sport, the acceleration was a bit disappointing. Granted my DD does 0-60 in 3.5 sec so my perception is a bit skewed, but still the EX Sport didn't seem like it could do 0-60 in 6.0 sec. And my DD does withhold boost if the engine isn't up to temp, so perhaps the Ecoboost does the same?

Not that I'm making excuses for the Explorer, but ... well yeah I'm making excuses for the Explorer.

I posted about the Platinums I test drove and both did indeed seem slow and there wasn't a noticeable difference between that car and my XLT acceleration wise. Maybe it's due to the suspension keeping the car planted but... In my other post, I was told the turbochargers are different than the F-150's turbos. "Twin parallel mounted turbochargers, max. 12 psi boost (Borg Warner K03 for truck version, Garrett GT15 for other applications)." My F-150 Ecoboost 2014 felt really fast despite being a SuperCrew and steel bodied. The one in the Explorer was indeed sluggish. That's a major reason why I didn't want to buy the Platinum yet.

The horsepower is the same as the F-150's 365 but the torque numbers are smaller, 350 lb-ft vs 420 lb-ft. When looking at the AWD gauge, the power is split front and rear 50% front and 50% rear. Compared to my Explorer XLT, power goes to the front 80% or 90%, under wide open throttle. That could be why there isn't a significant acceleration due to more drivetrain loss.
Then again, the power from the engine should more than make up for it.

It could also be that these dealers put regular fuel in them. I test drove a Platinum with premium fuel and the acceleration seemed slightly better but it could have been placebo affect.

 

[p38fln]

Ecoboost engines really should be run on premium fuel. Yes, the turbos are bypassed until the engine is warm (I think the waste gate stays open so it can't build any boost but there isn't really a good explanation of how the turbos are bypassed, I just know that they are).

On my early build f150, you could actually get brown smoke from the tailpipe until the ecm let the turbos build boost. I guess the EPA never tests the engines cold

 

[p38fln]

Also premium fuel raises the hp by 20 hp for the f150 3.5 and I think 30 hp for the escape 2.0 - its not just a placebo

 

[TheOtherEric]

so other query - what is your DD? Porsche, Audi, or Merc?

It's a '14 MB E63 AMG wagon. Yup, wagon.

Yes, the turbos are bypassed until the engine is warm (I think the waste gate stays open so it can't build any boost but there isn't really a good explanation of how the turbos are bypassed, I just know that they are).

Do you know this from butt dyno, or is it described in the owners manual? I'd like to figure out the specifics, because if the car wants a minimum oil temp (for example) then I'll be sure to hit that before doing a test drive. My E63 shows you quite clearly (numerically and with colors) if your oil temps are high enough for spirited driving.

 

[peterk9]

Ecoboost engines really should be run on premium fuel. Yes, the turbos are bypassed until the engine is warm (I think the waste gate stays open so it can't build any boost but there isn't really a good explanation of how the turbos are bypassed, I just know that they are).

On my early build f150, you could actually get brown smoke from the tailpipe until the ecm let the turbos build boost. I guess the EPA never tests the engines cold

Mine runs just fine on the recommended 87 octane. Tried 91 for a few months without noticing any difference and I'm not about to pay an extra $1 a gallon for the 94 octane. A waste of $$ since I don't tow.

Peter

 

[p38fln]

Sorry, I was replying from a cell phone. You are correct, it doesn't hurt anything at all to run them on 87 octane.

What I meant was if you want full power and MPG, it needs to run on 91 octane. My experimenting suggests that the MPG increase is offset almost perfectly by the increase in cost, but that depends on how much more premium costs.

I was just at a gas station where premium was $1.00 more than regular - absolutely not worth it.

Also, the tow ratings are based on 87 octane - you don't ever *need* to buy 91 octane, but it's nice to have

 

[p38fln]

It's a '14 MB E63 AMG wagon. Yup, wagon.


Do you know this from butt dyno, or is it described in the owners manual? I'd like to figure out the specifics, because if the car wants a minimum oil temp (for example) then I'll be sure to hit that before doing a test drive. My E63 shows you quite clearly (numerically and with colors) if your oil temps are high enough for spirited driving.

I signed up for a Motorcraft Service account for a month and read all the technical information about the Ecoboost in the F-150. It's been several years, but I do remember that it definitely "bypasses" the turbos when cold to prevent cracking the oil seals. The word the service manual used was bypass - I think it just opens the waste gate so no boost can build up, but I don't remember exactly what it said.


This was part of Ford's attempt to make it so you can have a turbocharged vehicle without knowing it has a turbocharger. The 2007 F-250 that has the "flamethrower" exhaust (search on youtube) was caused by the driver of the truck starting it in very cold weather and taking off immediately, which caused the turbos to spin at full RPM and crack the oil seal, which dumped oil into the exhaust, which was then lit by the DPF regen cycle - you don't even need to know not to do that in the 3.5 L Ecoboost, because Ford limits boost when the engine is cold.

 

[Napalm]

Outside Air temp makes quite a bit of difference to the ECU adjustments too.

let's not rule that out. Also didn't think about the dealers not putting 91+ in them, but good call on that too.

also I would think there is a break-in mode where the engine won't run full hard until it's past __________ miles. either way though

 

[Bill #5 Explorer]

Doesn't the transmission also need to "learn" the driver? Therefore making a test drive least optimal until driven a lot by an aggressive owner?

 

[blwnsmoke]

This was part of Ford's attempt to make it so you can have a turbocharged vehicle without knowing it has a turbocharger. The 2008 F-250 that has the "flamethrower" exhaust (search on youtube) was caused by the driver of the truck starting it in very cold weather and taking off immediately, which caused the turbos to spin at full RPM and crack the oil seal, which dumped oil into the exhaust, which was then lit by the DPF regen cycle - you don't even need to know not to do that in the 3.5 L Ecoboost, because Ford limits boost when the engine is cold.

FTFY

 

[p38fln]

Thanks, I knew it was a diesel F250 with EPA2007 emissions standards, I probably should have looked a little bit harder than my own memory for the exact details lol

 

[Napalm]

Doesn't the transmission also need to "learn" the driver? Therefore making a test drive least optimal until driven a lot by an aggressive owner?

yes and no.

I mean if driven gently it will respond gently most of the time - but it does always have the "oh hell" full throttle, gung ho mode.

but if under 1000 miles on the dash - I'd suspect there's a touch of break in protection algorithm, and a touch of oil temp and water temp are below ______ kicking in to reduce overall performance.

I'm assuming there is a break in protection algorithm - there are companies that use them. Not sure if Ford does, but I can't imagine them not.

 

[Napalm]

It's a '14 MB E63 AMG wagon. Yup, wagon.

lol - I like those and the Audi RS6 avants. Wished there were more American car wagons available.

Like the Chevy SS - it's AUS counterpart comes in wagon form. would own.

 

[Ajar]

As a Sport owner and someone who likes spirited driving I'll chime in here.

Chances are test driving a Sport is going to leave you thinking the power just don't seem to be there.

First off, dealerships are going to be running 87 and the engine will be tuned to accommodate that. There is major difference between running 93 over 87 if you properly run out the 87 and give it time to retune (also you have to push the gas pedal more than 25% Peter LOL).

Second issue would be the test drive situation. It's not like you can pull it into a parking lot, put it in sand mode, bring the RPMs up to 2500 and then let it rip. I'd love to see a salesmanship face if you did that though. Tearing it up off the line (and a few sweet spot speeds where you catch the right downshift) are where the Sport really shines. Your not going to catch either of those on a test drive.

Finally and most importantly.... The tune. I cannot stress this enough. For me the Livernois 93 high boost tune changed the Sport dramatically. It went from feeling like a meh no fun V6 Mustang, to an SRT8 eater - which by the way is not a joke. I regularly disgrace the SRT8 guys and even leave new 5.0 Mustangs playing catchup (at the track of course!).

Coming from your ride, I'd recommend the Sport if you were fine running 93 with a tune. Without the tune, you'd most likely be underwhelmed. GL with whatever you decide!

 

[p38fln]

Where the ecoboost really shines is a gradual power buildup and continuous power output. It will climb hills without downshifting that would have a naturally aspirated engine downshifting two gears.

It's not so good at launching, there is a bit of turbo lag. Once it starts to go, it will really go. Accelerating from 65 to 75 on the highway, where the turbos are already spooled up, is an absolute blast.

 

[1995E]

As a Sport owner and someone who likes spirited driving I'll chime in here.

Chances are test driving a Sport is going to leave you thinking the power just don't seem to be there.

First off, dealerships are going to be running 87 and the engine will be tuned to accommodate that. There is major difference between running 93 over 87 if you properly run out the 87 and give it time to retune (also you have to push the gas pedal more than 25% Peter LOL).

Second issue would be the test drive situation. It's not like you can pull it into a parking lot, put it in sand mode, bring the RPMs up to 2500 and then let it rip. I'd love to see a salesmanship face if you did that though. Tearing it up off the line (and a few sweet spot speeds where you catch the right downshift) are where the Sport really shines. Your not going to catch either of those on a test drive.

Finally and most importantly.... The tune. I cannot stress this enough. For me the Livernois 93 high boost tune changed the Sport dramatically. It went from feeling like a meh no fun V6 Mustang, to an SRT8 eater - which by the way is not a joke. I regularly disgrace the SRT8 guys and even leave new 5.0 Mustangs playing catchup (at the track of course!).

Coming from your ride, I'd recommend the Sport if you were fine running 93 with a tune. Without the tune, you'd most likely be underwhelmed. GL with whatever you decide!

I actually did that on my last test drive. I put it in Sport mode and floored the hell out of it. Put it in sand mode and floored the hell out of it. You should have seen his face when I didn't buy the car because I knew I was getting a bad deal on my trade in.

 

[Ajar]

It's not so good at launching, there is a bit of turbo lag.

I'll agree to disagree on this one, optionally spinning all 4 tires then chirping second a little too hard for my wife's comfort is more than good for me. Of course it's quicker when nothing spins, but hey the show can be pretty sweet!

 

[Napalm]

I would say it's setup well for most drivers - and is more a showcase of the handling ability of a 4600+lbs taurus station wagon on 20's. and for what it is and a FWD biased device (until pushed hard, or of course returned/calibrated) it handles very well.

I know some drivers don't like the EPAS steering system - honestly I think it fixes many of the woes that could exist.

I really like the sport brakes - and would considering upgrading any other 2016 non-sport if they fit right. I will check into that more in about 35K miles.


That said - I look forward to what they will do with the next clean sheet redesign of the whole platform (taurus)