Drop the Pan? | Ford Explorer Forums

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Drop the Pan?

Wolfie_85

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City, State
Iowa
Year, Model & Trim Level
1994 Ford Explorer XLT
Everyone seems to have a different opinion on this, but I want to dig a bit deeper. I want to do some transmission maintenance. My stance is that dropping the pan, replacing the filter and gasket, and adding some fluid is the best for an older transmission. Don't mess with more than you have to if you don't want to do more harm than good. I've heard people say the remaining fluid is just awful and they would flush (various methods to do so for the DIY'er).

It'd be interesting to hear some different takes on this, and results. I think the standard pan-drop-filter-swap-fluid-top is the best.
 



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If the tranny has always had reasonable change intervals of say 30k miles, I just drop the pan, and fill up. If its gone 80k on the original fluid, I would flush it. The best way I know to is take a line off the cooler and run it while pouring in new fluid.
 






If it's not been changed, you can probably get away with changing the filter and the drained fluid, but I would not flush it.

No transmission shop will tell you to flush it if it's never been done.
 






I know it's been done, but no idea when. So I will do a simple pan drop and drain with a new filter. Thanks guys!
 






Couple things...

If you've never been in the trans and don't know when the last time it was done, sure, drop the pan. If it was done within the last 60,000 miles, leave the pan.

The filter is not a filter, it's barely finer than window screen. It's not a paper filter or anything that can really get clogged unless you have a lot of big chunks (bye-bye trans).

The only real benefit to dropping the pan is having a look around and cleaning out whatever has settled into the pan as well as checking for any larger chunks.



The above said... make up your own mind on dropping the pan. Let's move on to more important things; installing a real filter and flushing all the fluid.

I would say that your first move should be to install an in-line filter between the radiator cooler and auxiliary cooler. This is super easy as you just cut the rubber hose and install whatever filter you want. For a budget mind, I'd recommend the Magnefine. They have a recommended change interval on them, maybe 60,000 miles or something. If you're feeling like starting a project and spending a bit more, see my signature for the spin-on transmission filter. You'll see pictures that explain why I recommend it.

Whichever filter you choose, it's important to start collecting the crud out of your transmission before doing anything else. Drive it with the filter for a few hundred miles, running through all the gears manually. Once you have some milage, you can start messing with fluids.

There's a few schools of thought on trans fluids. Many people say that if you exchange all the fluid in one go, you'll have problems due to the grit being removed and new detergents in the fluid knocking loose crud in the transmission. I don't know if that's true or not but why take the risk? If your trans hasn't had much maintenance, it would be a good idea (after running the filter) to drop the pan, clean everything down, replace the internal filter and put it back together. Then, just top up the transmission fluid. This will have replaced less than half the fluid. The smaller amount of new fluid will clean grit that will now get trapped in your in-line filter. Drive it like that for a few hundred/thousand miles.

Now, if your trans has had service within the last 50,000 miles or you've just completed the above step, it's time for a flush. No need to drop the pan and take an ATF bath. Just disconnect the in-line filter you installed, run the hose into a large container. It would be a good idea to use a clear hose or be able to see the fluid coming out of the hose. Start the engine and let maybe 2 or so quarts come out. Once that's happened, start pouring new fluid into the dipstick tube via a funnel. Pour at the same rate it's coming out. The trickier part here is knowing when to stop. Hopefully your fluid has some age on it and you can tell the color difference between the old & new. So, when the fluid coming out of the cooler lines is the same color as the fluid going in, stop the engine and hook everything back up. Start the engine, let it warm up and check the level. Add as necessary.

An issue with the above step is that if you drop the pan and fill with fresh fluid, it's going to be cleaner. That's not so great when you go to do the flush and can't tell the old fluid from the new fluid.



These are just my opinions gathered from research and personal experience. Take them with a grain of salt and add your own common sense.
 






I think one problem is there is a big difference between a tranny shop "flush", and just getting all new fluid in the tranny, torque converter included. A tranny shop hooks a big pressurized machine up to the lines and blows the gunk out. I wouldn't allow that on any thing I owned.
 






When I said "flush", I didn't mean a machine of any sort. I was thinking more like feed new fluid with truck running while old fluid pumps out. :p

And nate, was thinking about an inline filter recently. The fluid isn't really bad yet. But I don't let things get really bad.
That just makes them really expensive or broken.
 






Yea, I wouldn't ever do a pressurized flush either, not that my 24 year old vehicle would ever get to go to a dealership or Jiffy Lube :D

Seriously research the in-line filter Wolfie. Let me know if you have any questions, mine's been catching all kinds of crud and been flawless with no side effects.
 






I would drop the pan just to do a health check. Shiny metal particles in the fluid, how much crud on the magnet, etc.

If you can verify that the fluid's been changed before, I would change the filter and flush it with trans cooler lines as described above.

I would then install either a Magnefine or a spin on filter as natenkiki2004 mentioned.

This is exactly what I did with mine when I bought it. Dropped pan, changed filter, flushed through trans lines, installed Magnefine.

In the FYI category, I spoke to the owner of a reputable transmission shop in town (in business for 20+ years) and he said he NEVER changes the fluid or filter in his personal vehicles. I don't subscribe to that theory, but I thought it was interesting that the expert's advice was to never change the fluid.

He test drove my Explorer and said it was shifting great and to NEVER touch it again. I am going to ignore that advice and change the Magnefine after 15K miles and flush several quarts through the trans lines at the same time.

I will probably never drop the pan again with the Magnefine installed. It's going to catch much more than the filter ever will and since I cleaned the pan and pan magnets when I dropped it last time, I don't think it will ever need servicing again. One less messy job to deal with! I'll just change the Magnefine in the future.

This seems to be one of those hotly divided issues with people firmly on the change fluid/filter or never touch it side!
 






This seems to be one of those hotly divided issues with people firmly on the change fluid/filter or never touch it side!

What's funny about this, is that we layman, don't like the idea of not changing the fluid. In my mind and that of most others, fluid it breaks down over time and stops serving it's purpose. So we are divided over this.

Here's where our logic seems to fail. I've yet to find a professional transmission shop (even 'family' friends etc..) that sway from saying not to change it.

So why do we insist?

My Ford manual for my 1994 says that the differential fluid never needs changed, I believe it states the same for the manual trans as well.
 






I agree. I was amazed when the owner said he and everyone in their shop NEVER changes their fluid or filter in their personal cars. He said that's what 20+ years of owning a transmission shop taught him.

Number4 your point is well taken. For the life of me, I can't imagine never changing my trans fluid. I say that having never rebuilt a transmission in my life. Here's a guy who's probably rebuilt thousands (or certainly many many hundred's) of transmissions over 2 decades plus and says he'd never do it.

He's clearly the expert and I am the novice, but I still reject the idea and feel fluid should be changed periodically.

His advice has affected me though. I decided not to drop the pan and change the filter in my Lexus or Expedition (added Magnefine to the Expedition) after speaking with him. I may not flush (using the trans coolers) all of the transmission fluid from now on in my vehicles. I may only do 1/3 or 1/2 at a time.

When I asked him if he would drop my pan and change the filter (just to see what he'd answer) on my Explorer, he said 'no'.

On the other side of the equation, Cottman Transmission makes a living out of dropping your pan, changing the filter. Go figure!
 






I agree. I was amazed when the owner said he and everyone in their shop NEVER changes their fluid or filter in their personal cars. He said that's what 20+ years of owning a transmission shop taught him.

Number4 your point is well taken. For the life of me, I can't imagine never changing my trans fluid. I say that having never rebuilt a transmission in my life. Here's a guy who's probably rebuilt thousands (or certainly many many hundred's) of transmissions over 2 decades plus and says he'd never do it.

He's clearly the expert and I am the novice, but I still reject the idea and feel fluid should be changed periodically.

His advice has affected me though. I decided not to drop the pan and change the filter in my Lexus or Expedition (added Magnefine to the Expedition) after speaking with him. I may not flush (using the trans coolers) all of the transmission fluid from now on in my vehicles. I may only do 1/3 or 1/2 at a time.

When I asked him if he would drop my pan and change the filter (just to see what he'd answer) on my Explorer, he said 'no'.

On the other side of the equation, Cottman Transmission makes a living out of dropping your pan, changing the filter. Go figure!

The guy saying to not ever change the fluid makes a living out of rebuilds...
 












I don't buy into the theory that he's saying that to get more business. Many places won't touch a trans on a used car with unknown maintenance history. It works now but may not work after you flush, you're risking thousands of dollars to 'fix' something that already works. There's theories out there that say the grit and clutch material floating around in the fluid is actually what is keeping the thing alive and if you remove that, it will forever slip. I could kind of agree with that but even so, that trans is already dead and likely slips under heavy load anyway, it won't be long before it completely dies, regardless of fluid changes.

I understand that thought process and if I got a used beater from someone that doesn't even know how long ago the oil was changed, I probably wouldn't do much to the trans except top it off and maybe put an external filter on it.

That said, if the trans isn't driven hard and the existing fluid looks good on the dipstick (light red, clear) and it works fine & shifts smooth then I say go for it; drop the pan, change the internal filter, clean the pan & check for chunks, put the pan on, fill the trans back up, put an in-line filter on it and run it for a few thousand miles. At that point, you know the trans can handle the new fluid and it's been cleaned by the filter & fresh detergents... I'd go for a flush.



I don't and will never buy into the whole "lubricated for life" thing. In some situations, oil won't get terribly dirty like transfer cases and differentials. The fluid darkens but it lasts a long time. The bigger issue is shearing & viscosity changes and additive breakdown. There's a lot of high-pressure smashing going on in a transfer case and differential, it will shred the oil apart, thinning it down. That aside, if your diff hasn't been changed in 10+ years, there's probably been additive and oil advancements in that time and frankly, oil is cheap compared to the cost of replacing internal parts.
 






I have never heard anyone at a transmission shop say to never change the fluid. The place I take my vehicles to, Poway Transmission, owner says to change the fluid every 30-40000 miles if you want to have them last.

I am not a fan of flushing transmissions; the only time I did that on the Explorer, the transmission fried about two weeks later on the trail.
 






Yeah my take on it is like a lot of you guys, never do one of those Jiffy-Lube or dealer pressurized flushes.

I do believe in a flush via the cooler lines. I have done it 3 or 4 times on my rig and I now have 176,000 miles on it, never had any trans issues. FYI on my truck it pumps out 1 quart every 7-8 seconds. For every qt that goes out, one quart goes in via the filler neck. Tranny seals are never exposed to extreme pressure and the tranny never knows it's getting flushed. ;)

Here's a good thread on tranny filters:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155587

I use the Microfelt ones Glacier was talking about in the above thread, which used to be made by SPX, but now it seems they were bought by Fram of all companies. I had like 4 SPX Microfelts stored away from bulkpart.com and so I've never used a Fram one. Yet.

What is your guys opinion on adding magnets in the pan?
 






Well I have 220k on the original A4LD, which is considered a poor tranny, so I'll stick to what I've been doing.
 






What is your guys opinion on adding magnets in the pan?

My pan on the 700R4 has a built-in magnet.

Well I have 220k on the original A4LD, which is considered a poor tranny, so I'll stick to what I've been doing.

That's great, but you might have just gotten lucky and had a good one. What you are doing is obviously working. I have not had good luck with Ford transmissions in general. Two in the Explorer, and at least 20 in the patrol cars (Crown Victoria's) over the years. We would get a patrol car back from the dealership, drive it out of the driveway of the office, and it would already start slipping.

I haven't noticed much in the way of metal sluffing off in the 700R4 transmission. Very little is attached to the magnet, and the fluid still looks new whenever I have changed it. Same with the Silverado's transmission, but I have only had the pan down twice. But both have synthetic fluid, so that might be the difference. 700R4 has always had Mobile 1. Nothing else has ever been in it since it was new.
 






Wow, and the patrol cars probably had an AOD(E) or 5R55E, "supposedly" a stronger trans than the A4LD.

I put some magnets in my pan at about the 100,000 mile mark, and in the two pan drops I've done since, I really don't see any shavings or particles...but I suppose it can't hurt having the magnets down there. (?)

I ran two batches of AMSOIL ATF from 70,000 miles to about 150,000. Since 150,000 I have been using Valvoline MaxLife. I just replaced my tranny cooler hoses last night, as I had a leak in the old hoses. It was a bad enough leak that I think I ended up flushing my trans over the past 6 months anyway :)
 



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Here's a good thread on tranny filters:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155587

I use the Microfelt ones Glacier was talking about in the above thread, which used to be made by SPX, but now it seems they were bought by Fram of all companies. I had like 4 SPX Microfelts stored away from bulkpart.com and so I've never used a Fram one. Yet.

What is your guys opinion on adding magnets in the pan?

Personally, I don't want a nice and fine filter inside the transmission, nor do I want magnets in the pan. Why? When it comes time to change the filter and clean the magnet, you're taking the pan off. I'd rather have all that external to the trans so it's much quicker and easier to replace.

The external spin-on filter I have is quick to change. You can spin it off while you do an oil change, slap a new filter on with a quart of fresh ATF in the filter, great and cheap maintenance. I do computer work for a living and take apart old hard drives. They have pretty strong magnets inside, I take them out and stick them on the outside of the filter, usually about 3. See my pictures in the thread in my signature, they do a pretty good job;
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3288731

Honestly, I don't want to drop the pan again. I have to do it once more to fix the shift shaft seal but when it goes back on, I'm not using a gasket, I'll be using Permatex The Right Stuff and as far as I'm concerned, it will be sealed until either the trans dies or the vehicle gets scrapped.
 






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