Feedback for Torque Converter Replacement

[joslir]

2002 Explorer XLT 4x4, 4.0L, w/5R55W trans. 153,000 miles

I had the problem with the timing chain and tensioner rattle and decided to replace it because my daughter was going to use the X for going away to college. Successfully completed the job and it ran like a charm. I did all the maintenance to make sure it was in tip top shape before she took it. Which included changing the tranny fluid. There was nothing out of the ordinary with the color of the fluid and I had no other issues or symptoms with the transmission since solenoid body replacement under warranty by the dealer about 100K miles ago. About 3 months after the timing chain kit project I drove her back to her college and noticed the first sign of a tranny problem. After backing out of a parking spot and putting it in drive I proceeded to move forward under normal engine idle speed. It was making a distinct clicking noise from the transmission, similar to trying to put your car into drive too soon after backing up in reverse before coming to a complete stop. It didn't occur again that day. As Murphy's law would have it, my daughter calls me at home the next day after dropping her off at school (a 7 hour drive away!) saying the the X is making a loud noise when trying to accelerate The symptoms: loud rattle, diesel sounding coming from the transmission. It occurred when it was trying to shift from 1st and 2nd gear and again from 3 to 4 gears. After reaching a higher speed it would disappear. No slipping, just this noise. After searching the forum it looks like it points to the torque converter. The sound is definitely coming from or near the bell housing. I plan on having the X shipped back to my home at significant expense so that I can work on it. I feel I can get away with just replacing the TQ if the fluid looks to be normal with no residue or particles in it. Can any one tell me if I would be good just doing this? Like everyone else trying to limit my cost for this project. Any and all feed back is welcomed.

 

[imp]

2002 Explorer XLT 4x4, 4.0L, w/5R55W trans. 153,000 miles

I had the problem with the timing chain and tensioner rattle and decided to replace it because my daughter was going to use the X for going away to college. Successfully completed the job and it ran like a charm. I did all the maintenance to make sure it was in tip top shape before she took it. Which included changing the tranny fluid. There was nothing out of the ordinary with the color of the fluid and I had no other issues or symptoms with the transmission since solenoid body replacement under warranty by the dealer about 100K miles ago. About 3 months after the timing chain kit project I drove her back to her college and noticed the first sign of a tranny problem. After backing out of a parking spot and putting it in drive I proceeded to move forward under normal engine idle speed. It was making a distinct clicking noise from the transmission, similar to trying to put your car into drive too soon after backing up in reverse before coming to a complete stop. It didn't occur again that day. As Murphy's law would have it, my daughter calls me at home the next day after dropping her off at school (a 7 hour drive away!) saying the the X is making a loud noise when trying to accelerate The symptoms: loud rattle, diesel sounding coming from the transmission. It occurred when it was trying to shift from 1st and 2nd gear and again from 3 to 4 gears. After reaching a higher speed it would disappear. No slipping, just this noise. After searching the forum it looks like it points to the torque converter. The sound is definitely coming from or near the bell housing. I plan on having the X shipped back to my home at significant expense so that I can work on it. I feel I can get away with just replacing the TQ if the fluid looks to be normal with no residue or particles in it. Can any one tell me if I would be good just doing this? Like everyone else trying to limit my cost for this project. Any and all feed back is welcomed.

A few thoughts, but mind you, only because I grew up in Illinois! As a blind guess, can you "stethoscope" the area around the bellhousing, confirming noise intensity highest there? If no CODES are being displayed (via flashing O/D OFF light or Check Engine light, a mechanical/hydraulic fault not causing symptoms detectable by the computer may be happening. Check for codes anyway. If no other avenue to proceed presents itself, knowing the transmission appears to be sound, I would replace the torque converter. imp

 

[joslir]

Thanks for your reply! The CEL isn't on and the O/D light isn't flashing either. Nonetheless, I will go ahead and check to see if there are any codes being thrown and check with a stethoscope. The noise occurs when in drive. How would you check this without the car rolling over me? Is it safe to have the X blocked up with all four wheels of the ground?

 

[imp]

Thanks for your reply! The CEL isn't on and the O/D light isn't flashing either. Nonetheless, I will go ahead and check to see if there are any codes being thrown and check with a stethoscope. The noise occurs when in drive. How would you check this without the car rolling over me? Is it safe to have the X blocked up with all four wheels of the ground?

I have an '04, V-6 w/5R55S, similar transmission to yours. I have the choices of: "4X4 AUTO", "4X4 HIGH", and "4X4 LOW", via push buttons on the dash. I placed the entire vehicle on jack stands, supporting as close as possible to the wheels, to keep axle angles reasonably close to street values, had the wife run it up in 4X4 HIGH to about 30 mph. This keeps front and rear axles driving at similar speeds, even though the two wheels at each end may turn at dissimilar speeds, due to brake friction. If you do this in 4X4 AUTO, your everyday driving position, the discrepancy in speed between front & rear axles will alternately turn the electronic clutch within the transfer case on and off, resulting in some rather frightening and noisy gyrations of the driveline, harmless, but preferably avoided.

I was almost damned certain the noise issue was due to pinion bearings. My steth., a 2-foot length of fuel-line hose 3/8" ID, placed against the center section and the other end stuck in my ear, revealed the sound was originating in the ;left rear wheel hub. I ripped the bearing apart, a process not generally done after it's removal. A small galled area in one outer race was the cause of the noise.

Let me know if I can help in any other way. imp

 

[joslir]

imp. I threw the scanner on and there were no codes visible. I bought a stethoscope from HF. It was cheap but I gather it should do the job. A little more information about when I last changed the tranny fluid. At the time I couldn't remove the center T30 plug and stripped it in the process. I had to remove the entire drain plug. I measured the fluid drained and proceeded to add the same amount back in with what I believe would've been at the proper temperature (I have no temp scanner). With a new drain plug in place I added back (new fluid) all what was drained except about 16 oz. I didn't put all of it back in because it appeared to have been topped off based on the Haynes Manual instructions saying when it is full, no steady stream and dripping slightly. The transmission ran fine at this 'assumed' proper level up until recently. I'm beginning to think that maybe I would just need to do the fill procedure again to see if this corrects the problem? Would low fluid give these symptoms I'm having assuming the TQ isn't bad?

Next step is to drive it again and confirm the symptoms then check the fluid for crud from a failing trans. If the fluid appears ok then I will do the refill procedure again at proper level with new fluid and check to see if that is potentially the fix. If not, then I will pull the tranny and replace the torque converter.

 

[imp]

imp. I threw the scanner on and there were no codes visible. I bought a stethoscope from HF. It was cheap but I gather it should do the job. A little more information about when I last changed the tranny fluid. At the time I couldn't remove the center T30 plug and stripped it in the process. I had to remove the entire drain plug. I measured the fluid drained and proceeded to add the same amount back in with what I believe would've been at the proper temperature (I have no temp scanner). With a new drain plug in place I added back (new fluid) all what was drained except about 16 oz. I didn't put all of it back in because it appeared to have been topped off based on the Haynes Manual instructions saying when it is full, no steady stream and dripping slightly. The transmission ran fine at this 'assumed' proper level up until recently. I'm beginning to think that maybe I would just need to do the fill procedure again to see if this corrects the problem? Would low fluid give these symptoms I'm having assuming the TQ isn't bad?

Next step is to drive it again and confirm the symptoms then check the fluid for crud from a failing trans. If the fluid appears ok then I will do the refill procedure again at proper level with new fluid and check to see if that is potentially the fix. If not, then I will pull the tranny and replace the torque converter.

The implication that fluid level is critical, is bullshit. 3 gallons of oil going from cold to hot expand quite a bit, and yes, I know we are supposed to check level at operating temperature. Try your fix, but I'm afraid there's more. imp

 

[joslir]

Hello imp. Here is the latest, I’m hoping you can help me. I topped off the fluid level a little and as you indicated the problem still exists however the symptoms changed. I noticed the OD light flashing this time, I suspect it was doing it all along, I just didn’t see it because the position of my steering wheel was in the way. After checking with the scanner still no codes thrown.
I drove the car around and it continued with noise from the tranny when shifting from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 with RPM’s up to and sometimes exceeding 3000 before it would shift. If I feather the acceleration the noise was less and almost gone and she would shift at a more reasonable RPM. A more moderate to aggressive start made the symptoms more pronounced. After about 5 to 10 minutes of driving and the engine and transmission at a more normal operating temperature the noise almost completely went away. Although one could tell there was still something going on. I’m starting to think now it maybe the servo bore fix instead of the torque converter? When stopped and shifting to into D and R a noticeable clunk was occurring when it would engage. Is there anything else I can do that would point me to the problem with a little more certainty? By the way the fluid didn’t look degraded or smell burnt. Shining a flashlight close to the fluid when creating a thin layer at the bottom of the catch pan showed some very fine sparkles of metal, which I would consider normal, would you agree? It wasn’t excessive and you had to look hard to see it.
I plan on removing the transmission this weekend. On Rockauto’s web site I can send my TQ in for a rebuild for under a $100 where they will warranty it for 24 months. Sounds like a reasonable price. It is done by Alliance Torque Converters. Anyone have any experience with them, are they reliable? For this price I will have it done just to rule it out. Where I start to get a little intimidated is if I need to tear the tranny open and deal with other issues. I think I can tackle the servo bore fix. However, like everyone else I don’t want to randomly keep throwing parts at it till I solve the problem because of cost; plus I don’t want to have to pull the transmission more than once.
Any more ideas on where you think the problem lies? I invite comments from others who might have had this same problem.

 

[joslir]

Checked for codes again and found two, a P0775 - Pressure Control Solenoid B and
P1717 - Manufacturer Control. Need to replace Solenoid VB?

 

[imp]

Checked for codes again and found two, a P0775 - Pressure Control Solenoid B and
P1717 - Manufacturer Control. Need to replace Solenoid VB?

Certain of that P0775? My list has no such animal. P1717 says Transmission Concern (yeah, like, no ****!)

Pressure Control Solenoid could certainly cause faults like you are experiencing. The solenoids, all 8 of them, are all integral to a "module" which must be replaced in it's entirety if one goes bad. There are 3 Pressure Control Solenoids. All 3 work in conjunction with each other, a complex process where one verifies proper output of another. They control hydraulic pressure which brings about the needed clutch/band operation.

I replaced my '04 Solenoid Module when the Torque Converter clutch quit working, and code indicated TCC Solenoid Malfunction; the new module fixed it! Bought on e-bay, something like 200 bucks, brand new, in the box, Bosch made in Germany. imp

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Certain of that P0775? My list has no such animal.

P0775 is a pretty typical code when the solenoid block is bad. The most recent revision of the solenoid block is 9L2Z-7G391-A. I highly recommend getting it from a dealer; http://www.tascaparts.com has it for just under $300 shipped. New really is the best way to go, as they are prone to failure and the newest revision seems to be lasting much better than the originals.

 

[joslir]

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to drop the pan today to see what it looks like and proceed to order the replacement. May be even the servo bore fix as well. I will keep you updated on my progress.

 

[joslir]

I dropped the pan and found lots of metal shavings around the magnet and about a half dozen needle bearings all banged up and bent. Looking to get a rebuilt put in. Does anybody know the proper or easiest way to flush the transmission cooler?

 

[imp]

I dropped the pan and found lots of metal shavings around the magnet and about a half dozen needle bearings all banged up and bent. Looking to get a rebuilt put in. Does anybody know the proper or easiest way to flush the transmission cooler?

A reman- from Ford, if you buy that way, will come with an in-line fluid filter which must be installed after flushing the cooler, in order to have valid warranty. Ford quoted $200 less to me than O'Reilly's Auto, and had a much better warranty- 36,000/36 months. The Ford reman also came with a reman torque converter included. They don't want **** from old converters getting into the fresh reman, and then, too, you get a new torque converter clutch inside the damn thing! imp