Figured out one of my longstanding problems

[Explorerhucker]

Well, my explorer has been on a steady decline for the past year or so. I've had the timing chain clickity clack since about 60,000 mile (now 135,000) but it has also been shifting weird and has smelled like coolant for awhile. I could never find the problem. Well the temp gauge started to peg these last few weeks and my water pump was leaking enough to become a nuisance. So I changed the waterpump and it still was getting too hot. Soooo I changed the thermostat (not old) and it still running hot. I still noticed coolant smell as well. Well, I opened the hood and heard a slight hissing sound. Turns out that one of the hoses that feeds the heater core, that runs through the firewall, had been rubbing against another part alongside it and had a pinhole worn in it. So I change the hose and the truck is shifting better, running better and the temp is back to normal. Pesky little *******. It was driving me nuts. Now I gotta replace the timing chains/guides.........yay!

 

[jp450]

Good to know. Thanks for sharing.

 

[teamonetl]

timing chain and guides were a factory recall on my 97, but unfortunately "Sorry sir, you are out of your warranty/recall bracket" and cost $1700. Any kind of recourse with FORD ????

 

[Explorerhucker]

I know. It's no good.

Ford is rediculous. If a company has a known problem with a product and has documentation internally of it. They should be made to own up to it. Unfortunately for me I decided that it was probably just a heat sheild or something when it first arrived, and when I realized it was a problem, it was just past my warranty. Stupid me. It's also very funny to me that Ford has been making this truck for a long time and they still have design problem with the engines and GAS GAUGES!!!!!!!!!!!!! My old 85 audi had the most accurate gas gauge and the 2000 ford still can't figure it out? I mean, where's the attention to detail? Do they not listen to customers feedback or even their own mechanics after the gazzilionth timing chain tensioner replacement? Oh, and my armrest that snapped off within the first few months? Hmmm? Why not put a support under there in case somebody actually uses it for an armrest? Amazing thinking I know. I do like the amount of room and power this truck offers, as well as the brakes. The suspension is terrible unless you're on the smooth freeway. I just shined it up yesterday and it still looks pretty good. I'll keep it for awhile longer.

 

[jp450]

My timing chain rattle occured at about 30k mi. My 93 Ranger had a similar rattle, although not quite as loud, I was told by the dealer that it was normal. So I thought that the rattle in my new 99 Ex was normal also. When I got the notice for the "recall" it was too late as I was already over mileage. I have a little over 198K on the Ex now. I figure that I will just drive it till it stops then should the timing chain go then repair it at that time. At this point I dont see the benifit in having it fixed. With 198K on the motor if and when the timing chain goes I may just have a rebuilt put in. If teamonetl is correct in saying that it will cost 1700 to fix the problem then I dont see the need. How much more is a rebuild? And look at what you are getting...

Its kinda annoying but oh well... I have found that if the chain is slapping around when I start it then I just shut it down and restart it. Usually the rattle stops.

Jeff

 

[floydr007]

It's also very funny to me that Ford has been making this truck for a long time and they still have design problem with the engines and GAS GAUGES!!!!!!!!!!!!! My old 85 audi had the most accurate gas gauge and the 2000 ford still can't figure it out? I mean, where's the attention to detail?

No joking man, my gauge on my 99 sport was on empty and i filled it up with a whopping 13.8 gallons of gas on saturday!

 

[Explorerhucker]

Exactly.

Is it that hard to figure a gas gauge out?? Really? Think about that for a second. If they can't figure out an accurate way to measure the amont of fuel in a tank, then how can they build the rest of the truck with confidence? If it were a new model I'd understand, but it's really old. Go figure. You have a point about the waiting thing. Unfortunately, I really think the chain is messing with my timing. I'm not getting full power because of the looseness of the chains. I can feel it. My a6 started to make a similar noise the other day and I just about puked at the thought of the Audi doing the same thing. Turned out a hose had fallen off. I fixed it, and is now gone (hopefully).

 

[gijoecam]

Is it that hard to figure a gas gauge out?? Really? Think about that for a second. If they can't figure out an accurate way to measure the amont of fuel in a tank, then how can they build the rest of the truck with confidence? If it were a new model I'd understand, but it's really old. Go figure. You have a point about the waiting thing. Unfortunately, I really think the chain is messing with my timing. I'm not getting full power because of the looseness of the chains. I can feel it. My a6 started to make a similar noise the other day and I just about puked at the thought of the Audi doing the same thing. Turned out a hose had fallen off. I fixed it, and is now gone (hopefully).

I don't understand the fuel tank complaint.... Do you not want the light to come on before it runs out of gas? Industry standard is that the light comes on when you're down to approximately 10% of the capacity of the tank. On a 15-gallon tank, that would me that the warning light should come on when there's roughly 1.5 gallons left. Drive to the gas station and fill up with 13.8 gallons, and that sounds about as accurate as you can measure a sloshing fuel level.

 

[Explorerhucker]

Well......

The complaint is that it has an 18 gallon tank (not 13.8) and you never know where it's at because the gas gauge fluctuates more than a quarter tank depending on whether your driving downhill, uphill, flat or whatever. The light will come on going down a steep grade and you'll be in the red. Then a mile down the road you'll be on flat ground and it'll show a quarter tank. Someone recently drove my truck when it had a quarter tank (uphill). They actually stopped the truck (going downhill)and waited for me to come back up because they thought there was a problem with the truck. It says "check gauge". Now does that immediately make you think that you are low on fuel? No. Someone that didn't own the truck wouldn't know what was going on. It's just plain stupid all the way around. My Audi has a light that is shaped like a gas pump.......what an idea!

 

[gijoecam]

The complaint is that it has an 18 gallon tank (not 13.8) and you never know where it's at because the gas gauge fluctuates more than a quarter tank depending on whether your driving downhill, uphill, flat or whatever. The light will come on going down a steep grade and you'll be in the red. Then a mile down the road you'll be on flat ground and it'll show a quarter tank. Someone recently drove my truck when it had a quarter tank (uphill). They actually stopped the truck (going downhill)and waited for me to come back up because they thought there was a problem with the truck. It says "check gauge". Now does that immediately make you think that you are low on fuel? No. Someone that didn't own the truck wouldn't know what was going on. It's just plain stupid all the way around. My Audi has a light that is shaped like a gas pump.......what an idea!

Actually, I quoted the wrong post... I meant to hit the one above yours from floydr.... He has a Sport, and the Sport has a 15-gallon tank. That's why I didn't understand the gripe.

Ford made it simpler. It's a dummy-light, and IMHO, it's pretty self-explanatory. It says, 'Check Gage.' Do that, and I'm sure you'll find the problem. It's not rocket science.

As for the fluctuation, it's all in the programming of the anti-slosh module. All cars have them. Without an anti-slosh module, the gauge would never stop moving. An Audi or a Honda or a Peterbilt will do the same thing, given enough averaging of the level.

-Joe

 

[Explorerhucker]

Nope...

I have owned many a car my friend and this Ford is not within "normal" fluctuation. Do most cars fluctuate? Yes. Do they fluctuate a quarter tank+? Nope. The "Check Guage" is not simpler. If you read the manual, you will see that the "check Gauge" light signifies many different things with the car. Not just fuel quantities. Also, the whole deal is you are forced pretty much to make a mental note of how many mile you've drove or really pay attention to where the needle was in the morning in the flat driveway. I know, because I actually make a mental note everyday of what it says in my driveway before I back out, because it will not read that amount a mile down the road. Just plain stupid. NO buts about it. Hell, my 1970 VW van had a wayyyyyy more accurate gauge.

 

[gijoecam]

Well, then sell the Explorer and buy an Audi or VW. Problem solved.

 

[Explorerhucker]

already did........

Don't get me wrong. I like the truck enough. It just boggles my mind when a company turns a blind eye to a major design flaw (tensioners). It really sheds alot of light on why Ford isn't doing too well these days. It's not all about labor costs and such. The consumer is willing to pay if they are getting a good product. It's about the quality of the product. Ford is lacking in the detail dept. right now.

 

[gijoecam]

Trust me, I know exactly where Ford is lacking right now... How anyone could claim the tensioners were a design flaw is beyond me. If it was a design flaw, it would affect ALL the vehicles. It's a component flaw that doesn't affect all the engines/vehicles, hence the TSB and customer satisfaction program for those that have the issue. They stood behind those products that are/were prone to failure. I don't think that hurt their customer base.

-Joe

 

[Explorerhucker]

in this case, component flaw is a design flaw.

If you were to build a car from scratch. You'd be the one designing the engine and everything that comes with it. Not to mention that they had to reDESIGN the tensioners 3 times to get them to stick. You're saying that they can blame the third party that supplied them? Yes, they can, but it still comes back to them in the beginning. Yes there is a TSB and yes there is a program that covers 80% or whatnot. All the people I've spoken with have had to pry that info out of their dealers. I took mine in when I initially heard the noise at about 45,000 and they said it was probably a heatsheild clanking against the exhaust.
Well I just happened to read about this noise on the internet right after my warranty expired. I think it's funny that I got a notice for the recall on the seatbelt bolt or whatever it was, and no mention of this impending 2200 dollar job that most explorers like mine have. If it's not a safety thing they have a "don't ask don't tell" policy. Just a quick "heads up" from the dealer or Ford would go a long ways in satisfying customers. I mean, I write a check for 500 a month directly to Ford for this car. At least tell me that it has a faulty "component" that might destroy the engine at any time. I'll have it payed off in a few months and I'll have to make the decision. Keep it and spend two grand to fix the tensioners or just buy a new engine! I like my choices. Thanks FORD.

 

[gijoecam]

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I feel compelled to defend the company I've spent the last 10 years of my life working for as a 4th generation skilled tradesman.

Not to mention that they had to reDESIGN the tensioners 3 times to get them to stick.

Not sure where you heard that, but it's hear-say as far as I'm concerned.

You're saying that they can blame the third party that supplied them? Yes, they can, but it still comes back to them in the beginning.

I did not say to blame anyone. Please do not put words in my mouth.

All the people I've spoken with have had to pry that info out of their dealers.

How is uninformed staff at the dealership Ford Motor Company's fault, exactly??

I took mine in when I initially heard the noise at about 45,000 and they said it was probably a heatsheild clanking against the exhaust.

Sounds like a complete mis-diagnosis by the dealership. I took mine in for the same noise at 19,000 miles and they replaced the guides. At 23,000 miles, I experienced the [incorrectly published-spec] low oil pressure and they replaced my engine. That sounded like the proper diagnosis to me at the time. Again, how is a mis-diagnosis by your dealership technicians Ford's fault?

Well I just happened to read about this noise on the internet right after my warranty expired. I think it's funny that I got a notice for the recall on the seatbelt bolt or whatever it was, and no mention of this impending 2200 dollar job that most explorers like mine have.

It's not a required job. Your Explorer was not about to up-and-die because of a rattling noise from the cam chain guides.

If it's not a safety thing they have a "don't ask don't tell" policy.

And that is an industry standard. If it's not safety related, but is a customer satisfaction program, I assure ou, Ford makes every attempt to satisfy their vehicle's owners, hence the notification letters, but they can only do so much.

Just a quick "heads up" from the dealer or Ford would go a long ways in satisfying customers. ... At least tell me that it has a faulty "component" that might destroy the engine at any time.

See owner notification letters below.

I'll have it payed off in a few months and I'll have to make the decision. Keep it and spend two grand to fix the tensioners or just buy a new engine! I like my choices. Thanks FORD.

For the record, Ford DID inform the dealers of the issue. If it didn't trickle down to the service writers and/or technicians, that's not Ford's fault. It was Owner Notification Problem 00M12.

OWNER NOTIFICATION PROGRAM
00M12 Certain 1997 through 2000 Explorer/Mountaineer and 2001 Explorer Sport/Sport-Trac Vehicles Equipped with 4.0L SOHC Engines - Camshaft Chain Tensioner and Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Additional Coverage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





November 2000

To:
All Ford and Lincoln Mercury Dealers

Subject:
Owner Notification Program 00M12 - Certain 1997 through 2000 Explorer/Mountaineer and 2001 Explorer Sport/Sport-Trac Vehicles Equipped with 4.0L SOHC Engines - Camshaft Chain Tensioner and Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Additional Coverage

OASIS:

Yes

OWNER LIST:

Yes

PARTS RETURN:

No

PROGRAM TERMS:

On the affected vehicles, this program extends the coverage for the 4.0L SOHC camshaft chain tensioner and lower intake manifold gasket to 6 years or 72,000 miles from the vehicle's warranty start date, whichever occurs first. This coverage will automatically transfer to subsequent owners. If the vehicle already has more than 72,000 miles, this coverage will last until April 30, 2001.

AFFECTED VEHICLES


Certain 1997 through 2000 Explorer and Mountaineer vehicles equipped with 4.0L SOHC engines built at the Louisville Assembly Plant and St. Louis Assembly Plants from Job #1, 1997 through April 7, 2000.
Certain 2001 Explorer Sport and Sport-Trac vehicles equipped with 4.0L SOHC engines built at the Louisville Assembly Plant from Job #1 through April 7, 2000.
SERVICE ACTION


Owners of affected vehicles are being notified that Ford Motor Company is providing additional coverage for the affected engine camshaft chain tensioner and lower intake manifold gaskets.
If either the camshaft chain tensioner or lower intake manifold gasket should require replacement, dealers are instructed to install both of these upgraded parts at the same time, at no charge to the customer.
The no charge coverage for this condition is available for 6 years or 72,000 miles from the vehicle's warranty start date, whichever occurs first, and will automatically transfer to subsequent owners. If the vehicle already has more than 72,000 miles, this coverage will last until April 30, 2001.
Please read Attachment IV (Question & Answer Sheet) for more details.
REASONS FOR THIS PROGRAM

We have incorporated enhancements into newly produced Explorer 4.0L SOHC engines. The long-term benefits of these improvements are being offered to prior customers.

The need to install a replacement camshaft chain tensioner is typically indicated by an engine rattling noise that occurs just after cold engine start up and goes away within a few minutes after the engine is running. Rough idle and low idle are symptoms which may, in some cases, indicate an intake manifold leak.

The condition of either or both of these components will not cause engine damage or failure, but may decrease the customer's satisfaction with their vehicle.

Attachments

Attachment I
Administrative Information
Refund Codes
Attachment II
Labor Allowances
Parts Ordering Information
Attachment III
Technical Information
Attachment IV
Questions & Answer Sheet
QUESTIONS?

Claims Information:.......................................................1-800-423-8851
Other (Dealer Only) Recall Questions:..............................1-800-325-5621




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ATTACHMENT I
Owner Notification Program 00M12

Furthermore, they DID notify every Explorer owner they could find. Here's the letter they sent out to all Explorer owners that they knew of.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




December 2000

00M12 (gasket and tensioner)

Mr. John Sample
123 Main Street
Anywhere, New Mexico 12345

Your Vehicle Identification Number: 12345678901234567



At Ford Motor Company, we are constantly working to improve our products. The reason for this letter is to tell you about a no charge coverage program.

What is the no charge coverage program?

Two internal components in newly produced Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer 4.0L SOHC engines were recently enhanced to improve customer satisfaction. Ford would like to extend the long-term benefits of those two improvements to you by providing a no charge warranty extension, program number 00M12.

What parts of your vehicle are covered?...

Specifically, this program extends the warranty on the camshaft chain tensioner and the lower intake manifold gasket in certain 1997 to 2000 model Explorer and Mountaineer vehicles and 2001 Explorer Sport and Sport-Trac vehicles with 4.0L SOHC engines to a total of 6 years or 72,000 miles from the vehicle's warranty start date, whichever comes first. During this period, should either of these components require replacement, your Ford or Lincoln Mercury dealer is authorized to replace both at the same time at no charge to you. If your vehicle already has more than 72,000 miles, this coverage will last until April 30, 2001.

Refunds ...

If the camshaft chain tensioner or lower intake manifold gasket was the cause of a repair which occurred before the date of this letter, Ford is offering a full refund. For the refund, please give your paid original receipt to your Ford or Lincoln Mercury dealer. To avoid delays, do not send receipts to Ford Motor Company.

If you've changed address or sold the vehicle...

Please fill out the enclosed prepaid postcard and mail it to us if you have changed address or sold the vehicle.

Quality Care service is there for you all year round.

Quality Care is the commitment of Ford Motor Company and its dealerships to provide you with a superior service and ownership experience. We stand committed with our dealers to assist you with all of your automotive service needs. With our nationwide dealer network, we're here to ensure you receive Quality Care service so that your vehicle maintains peak performance throughout your ownership experience.

We hope this no charge coverage confirms our commitment to your satisfaction. We pride ourselves on becoming the world's leading consumer company for automotive products and services.



OWNER NOTIFICATION PROGRAM
00M12

Then, after a year and a half of unnecessarily replacing the guides, they revised the procedure and sent out another letter to both the dealerships and the owners.

Dealer Letter:

OWNER NOTIFICATION PROGRAM
01M01 All 1997 and 1998 Model Year Explorer and Mountaineer Vehicles built with 4.0L Single Overhead Cam Engine - Additional Coverage Program for Front Cam Chain Guide Assembly

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ford Motor Company
P.O. Box 1904
Dearborn, Michigan 48121
1-800-392-3673
www.ownerconnection.com



July 2001

TO: All Ford and Lincoln Mercury Dealers

SUBJECT: Owner Notification Program 01M01 Supplement #2: Revised Technical Instructions and New Labor Operations (See Attachment II and III)

RE: Owner Notification Program 01M01: All 1997 and 1998 Model Year Explorer and Mountaineer Vehicles built with 4.0L Single Overhead Cam Engine - Additional Coverage Program for Front Cam Chain Guide Assembly

REASON FOR THIS SUPPLEMENT

Original Instructions: At the time of publication, engine oil pressure test was used to identify engine bearing damage related to cam chain guide failures. Based on extensive testing of returned engines, we have learned that cam chain guide failures do not cause bearing damage. In addition, the oil pressure specification listed in the original bulletin and in the Workshop Manual was listed incorrectly and is being corrected.

Revised Instructions: On engines with severe cam chain guide damage, the revised instructions require visual inspection of the cam and cam followers for damage caused by lack of lubrication. On engines that are running rough, the cylinder leak-down test will still be used to identify bent valves.

NOTE: Evaluation of returned engines will continue. We will continue using the green 01M01 Engine Tag. It will be revised to reflect the new service procedure. This tag must be attached to each returned engine.

New Labor Operations: The Labor Operations listed in Attachment II have been completely revised. Effective immediately, these labor operations must be used when submitting a claim.

PROGRAM TERMS

This additional coverage program will be in effect for 7 years from vehicle warranty start date or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

VEHICLES COVERED BY THIS PROGRAM

All 1997 and 1998 model year Explorer and Mountaineer vehicles with 4.0L Single Overhead Cam (SOHC) engines built at the Louisville Assembly Plant from July 29, 1996 through October 20, 1998 and at the St. Louis Assembly Plant from May 29, 1996 through September 18, 1998.

REASON FOR PROVIDING ADDITIONAL COVERAGE

On some of the affected vehicles, the front cam chain guide assembly may wear or break and cause excessive cam chain noise that does not go away after five minutes of engine operation.

SERVICE ACTION

If the cam chain guide assembly is worn or broken, install a new cam chain guide assembly. If it has broken and fragments have entered the engine oil pan, clean the block of all debris, replace the engine oil pick-up and filter assembly, and install new oil and filter.

ATTACHMENTS

Attachment I: Administrative Information
Attachment II: Labor Allowances and Parts Ordering Information
Attachment III: Technical Information
Attachment IV: Q & A Sheet
Owner Notification Letter
QUESTIONS?

Claims Information:....................................................1-800-423-8851
Other (Dealer Only) Program Questions:.......................1-800-325-5621






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright © 2001 FORD MOTOR COMPANY
Published By: Recall/Service Programs Department
Ford Customer Service Division

Customer Notification Letter: (accent added)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




December 2000

00M12 (gasket and tensioner)

Mr. John Sample
123 Main Street
Anywhere, New Mexico 12345

Your Vehicle Identification Number: 12345678901234567



At Ford Motor Company, we are constantly working to improve our products. The reason for this letter is to tell you about a no charge coverage program.

What is the no charge coverage program?

Two internal components in newly produced Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer 4.0L SOHC engines were recently enhanced to improve customer satisfaction. Ford would like to extend the long-term benefits of those two improvements to you by providing a no charge warranty extension, program number 00M12.

What parts of your vehicle are covered?...

Specifically, this program extends the warranty on the camshaft chain tensioner and the lower intake manifold gasket in certain 1997 to 2000 model Explorer and Mountaineer vehicles and 2001 Explorer Sport and Sport-Trac vehicles with 4.0L SOHC engines to a total of 6 years or 72,000 miles from the vehicle's warranty start date, whichever comes first. During this period, should either of these components require replacement, your Ford or Lincoln Mercury dealer is authorized to replace both at the same time at no charge to you. If your vehicle already has more than 72,000 miles, this coverage will last until April 30, 2001.

Refunds ...

If the camshaft chain tensioner or lower intake manifold gasket was the cause of a repair which occurred before the date of this letter, Ford is offering a full refund. For the refund, please give your paid original receipt to your Ford or Lincoln Mercury dealer. To avoid delays, do not send receipts to Ford Motor Company.

If you've changed address or sold the vehicle...

Please fill out the enclosed prepaid postcard and mail it to us if you have changed address or sold the vehicle.

Quality Care service is there for you all year round.

Quality Care is the commitment of Ford Motor Company and its dealerships to provide you with a superior service and ownership experience. We stand committed with our dealers to assist you with all of your automotive service needs. With our nationwide dealer network, we're here to ensure you receive Quality Care service so that your vehicle maintains peak performance throughout your ownership experience.

We hope this no charge coverage confirms our commitment to your satisfaction. We pride ourselves on becoming the world's leading consumer company for automotive products and services.



OWNER NOTIFICATION PROGRAM
00M12

So, maybe I'm missing the boat here. Correct me if I'm wrong... Ford identified a potential problem a year into the BRAND NEW engine model run. It notified the dealers and owners of the problem, and said, "If you have a problem out to 6 yrs or 72,000 miles, we'll fix it for free." Then, after they started 'fixing' the problems, they discovered that their published diagnostic and repair procedure had them replacing engines unnecessarily, so they revised the procedure, again, offering to satisfy their customers if they asked. Legally, they weren't obligated to do so beyond the factory 3/36, but they chose to double the coverage period just to keep the customers happy. Furthermore, they discovered (and informed the dealers and owners) that the problem would not cause an engine failure.

Now, where did they a) not try to inform and satisfy the customer? And b) declare that failure to fork out $2200 for an unnecessary repair would cause the engine to fail??

 

[Explorerhucker]

Nice post....

Hmmm? Well, I guess I lost out at everypoint along the way. Poor diagnosis, no notification, past warranty......sheesh. Must've been my bad luck? Then again, by reading this forum, everyone seems to have bad luck coincidently?

 

[gijoecam]

Ford sold nearly 3/4 of a million Explorers per year during the 97-01 run (second gens). That's 3.75 million Explorers. Figure 1/3 of them have the SOHC (which, of course, is the only engine with the guide problem) which equates to 1.25 million vehicles. So, even if EVERY owner on this board had the problem with the tensioners, that's roughly 4%. Hardly EVERYONE by any stretch of the imagination. If you figure that roughly 1/3 of the members of this board have a SOHC motor, that's 1.2% of the Explorers.... Not quite a majority.

 

[Explorerhucker]

wait a minute......

.....are you a politician? Maybe after we have the other 49% of the U.S. population that doesn't have internet, sign on and start using this forum, we'll see more of a majority? Seems to me that sidestepping reality will wear a guy out eventually. Maybe some insight into Ford's latenight "methods of denial" workshops for longstanding employees would shed some light into this matter?

 

[gijoecam]

Where am I sidestepping reality in calling you to task on your hasty generalization? I'm not denying a problem exists, and neither is Ford. However, it's not an all-encompassing problem. Not EVERY SOHC motor experiences the problem, and very few, if any, experience a catastrophic failure if you don't perform the 00M12 service. You and I had a problem. Mine was fixed properly, yours wasn't. How that translates into, "...everyone seems to have bad luck coincidentally?" sounds like a hasty generalization to me.

It's not a method of denial either. I just read the numbers.