Front End Groaning Vibration from stop w/turn

[EMBPilot]

Hey Guys,

Need some help with a noise that started a few weeks ago.
1998 (built october 97) XLT AWD 5.0L 125K

Once i start accelerating from the stop with the wheels turned (hard) (left or right) the truck has a groaning, grinding sound that will "roll with the wheels" (the noise will fade in and out as the wheels turn) all through the turn, and during acceleration until the you start taking out the turn. once the wheels are straight again, the noise goes away. it definitely sounds like its coming from the front end.

if your rolling, at ANY speed even 3MPH, and turn, HARD or Soft, there will be NO noise from the truck. it has to be done from a stop and usually only while accelerating from a stop during a turn. If you accelerate from a stop, and go straight, no noise either.

it will not do it in reverse either.

Im not even sure where to start looking here. i was thinking maybe start with a front gear-oil change? maybe wheel bearings? the sound has defiantly gotten worse as i continue to drive the truck. It is my daily driver.

Thanks for your help guys.

Kevin

 

[R.J.]

some boby needs to help this guy, cause i have the same problem from a dead start.

 

[EMBPilot]

little bit of a follow up here, I have a mechanic friend of mine that i drove around with this morning. the truck was cold, it was the first ride of the day, but the engine was warm. the damm thing didnt make ANY noise while driving around with him of course....

but i know for sure this noise is there, because i know it happens after driving back from work and after ive been driving around for a while. Last night when i wrote about the noise it was really loud, and i had just completed a long drive on rainy roads which leads me to his idea about this noise.

Perhaps the AWD is engaging (rain ect) and not disengaging. i dont think on AWD versions of our explorers there is any indication the AWD is on or not. you have to feel for it. so maybe thats why its making this noise, the AWD is sticking on and its making the noise through a turn in which case it would be normal. It certinly didnt make any noise this morning on the first drive of the day.

Is there a motor or sensor switch that may need to be cleaned or replaced that tells the front transfer case to come on or off?

 

[EMBPilot]

bump

 

[reserved50]

ummm disconnect the front shaft and see if it still does it, DO NOT PARK ON ANY HILLS with it disconnected or it will roll down, and use your e-brake on level surfaces till the shaft is back in because of the differential action in the transfer case will make the park pawl in the transmission inefective. Anyways if the problem is still there with no shaft, theres something wrong with your front end

 

[explrths]

sounds like either the cv in the half shaft OR the wheel hub bearing assembly. Has either of these been replaced? Jack up the front end and tug on the tire. If it moves then it is probably the hub bearing.

 

[EMBPilot]

thanks guys,

the truck has 125K on it, wheel bearings or CVs have never been changed or checked (the boots arent cracked but thats all i know). i noticed it wont do it when the truck is cold, it needs to be driven for some time. in fact its been so cold in the NE for these past two weeks its been behaving

the axle removal will have to wait for a weekend. but im due for a rotation so when i get the front of the truck in the air i'll give the tires a pull. do i pull them out to feel for play? or is it up down side to side to check wheel bearings?

 

[explrths]

pull any direction u want. i pull top and bottom for the hub bearing. Last time i did it i was surprised my wheel didnt fall off. If they have never been changed, its about time to do it.

 

[EMBPilot]

assuming its the bearings do you change then entire wheel hub or just the bearings? im not sure i have a torque wrench big enough for that bolt. i think the biggest one i have is rated for 250 ft lbs...

 

[explrths]

whole hub. Its actually pretty easy. 5 lugs, 3 bolts for sheild, 2 caliper and 3 for the hub. as for the turque wrench get one from local parts store, most of them "rent them".

 

[EMBPilot]

Hey guys,
thanks for the help here. The strange thing is the truck wont make these noises when its cold. its only after a 40 minute ALL highway drive home that in the last two turns to my house (the only tight turns) it will make the grinding noise, accompanied with the vibration. The noise and the vibration both, tone in and tone out as the wheels roll and then go away as i straighten the turn out.

I got the front of the truck up today and tugged on the front wheels.

pulling the top and bottom of the wheels they didnt budge, not one bit. they didnt pull in or out either. rotating them by hand was smooth. no grinding noises, even after spinning them with the wheels turned in either direction.

my other thoughts now, could this possibly be the half shafts??

 

[reserved50]

probably, or its your transfer case locking up, to eliminate the case remove the front shaft

 

[explrths]

one last thing to check if its the hub, pull the wheel off and try to turn the hub by hand, it should turn freely. With the wheel on, the wheel will absorb anything you are loooking for. As I have read this again, it seems the noise only happens during turns? It could be the half shaft. I dont really know a way of checking short of pulling everything apart and trying the cv by hand. When i did thns, i couldnt get it to flex at all. Felt like i had sand in it.

 

[EMBPilot]

okay i'll try it again when i pull the tires off when i rotate them. Thanks for the follow up. although i have a feeling this is pointing towards half shafts or the transfer case

 

[EMBPilot]

Update

Okay guys, got a lot done today. got all the tires off, front hubs feel TIGHT, no play in them, up down or in out. they rotate freely.

sucked out what i could from front Diff case, oil looked dark gold, put in some new oil.

Drained and refilled the transfer case with new Mercon ATF. what came out looked clean and red.

now the rear....

once i popped the diff cover off the back what came out was very FLUID but it was SOLID GREY. I put new Amsoil synthetic back in it.

drove the truck tonight (did the work early this morning) and the noise is STILL there... but its NOT as loud as it once was and doest quite shake the entire truck like it used it. but i can feel it and hear it because i know exactly what to listen for.

im getting ready to pay ford the 100 bones to diagnose this for me. i just dont know where to keep looking? first i thought it was the hubs, then maybe the half shafts, now by the looks of the rear diff oil somethings up back there....

ideas guys?

Kevin

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Your AWD case does not engage or disengage- as a matter of fact, there are no wires or controls connected to it at all. It is full time AWD, something like 40/60 split. It sounds like you could have a bad half shaft or CV, or possibly a bad front driveshaft. They are prone to go out and hard to trace down. I'd say pull it and like they said, don't park on a hill without setting your ebrake. If the noise goes away, you just need a new DS. If it doesn't go away, I'd guess its a halfshaft.

When you pulled the rear diff cover, how did everything look? I doubt your rear end is causing problems, but it is possible.

 

[EMBPilot]

okay guys, i'll try to pull the front drive shaft out, and drive it around for a week or so.

The components seemed to be very clean when i pulled the rear diff cover. no metal chips or filings, but i found it strange that after a 125K the fluid was gray, as in, so gray it matched my interior.

i want to make sure i remove the CORRECT shaft, can you describe it to me to make sure, as well as any tips for removing? i'll back this up with my factory CD and haynes.

THANKS AGAIN for all the help guys!

 

[MountaineerGreen]

I wouldn't be too concerned about your diff fluid- it changes color with age.

I wouldn't drive any extended amount of time without the front DS. It has been debated heavily on here, but I believe it can damage your T case clutches if driven a long time. You should get instant results if the DS is bad after you remove it. The front DS is between the Tcase and front diff. You need an 8mm wrench or socket, remove the 8 bolts that hold it to the case, then a torx bit to remove the four screws that hold the caps on the u joint on the diff end. I'd suggest you mark the alignment of the t case end to make sure you install it the same if it isn't bad.

 

[EMBPilot]

Green, thanks a million. all i need to do to get the noise is to drive the truck on the highway for about 10min, then make a couple hard turns from a stop, and i'll hear it or not.

so i'll remove the shaft and take it for a test run, then reinstall. Thanks again Evan


Kevin

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Let me know how it goes...