Front end vibration and odd sound.

[chrisH!]

Hello everyone! I have a 2001 Mountaineer, 5 liter AWD, 150K miles, with issues.
I put new tires on it a few months ago and then had to replace the lower ball joints due to a failure. I had the Ford dealer replace them and also put new wheel bearings in the front (I supplied them, Timco brand). I had replaced all four front ball joints three years earlier. A few weeks ago I noted a woop, woop sound when taking left curves between 30 and 50 MPH, it seems to be coming from the front passenger side (happens during acceleration, coast or decel). Yesterday I noticed a shudder/vibration when accelerating between 25 and 30 MPH, it shakes the steering wheel and very audible. I comes back back between 40 and 45 MPH but it is not as bad. It does not occur when coasting or decelerating. I jacked up both sides of the front, no apparent play in the ball joints, CV's or bearings. All the driveshaft U joints seem tight. Both problems seem to be wheel speed dependent, not engine speed. Tires are all at the same pressure and wearing well, CV boots are intact, everything seems fine. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Dave 1955]

Might be air in the system.
Do a bunch of tight turns lock to lock in both directions. (circles)
If not that it will at least be ruled out.

 

[chrisH!]

Thanks Dave, tried that, it made no difference. Of course it is 13 degrees with the windchill today, so it makes more noises than usual in the cold.

 

[RamboRat]

I'm having the same issue with my 98 explorer sport. My sound comes from the driver side also after having my upper and lower ball joints replaced.

 

[RomeovilleIL]

Try rotating the tires before going in to mechanical issues. One may have a broken belt or be out of round/bump in the tread from hitting a pothole in the road at speed.

Bad bearing dont always have play in them. With front wheels of the ground turn the tires by hand. Should turn quiet and smoothly. If any noise or grinding feeling you have the answer.

 

[chrisH!]

Romeoville, unfortunately I cant spin the wheels since it is full time AWD, I guess I will have to actually rotate the tires to a different location and see if the shudder moves to a different part of the truck.

 

[RomeovilleIL]

Romeoville, unfortunately I cant spin the wheels since it is full time AWD, I guess I will have to actually rotate the tires to a different location and see if the shudder moves to a different part of the truck.

Actually yes you can. The front differential is open. Block the rear tires. Lift the front end so both tires are off the ground, slowly turn the tire. The opposite tire will turn in the other direction. It should turn smoothly with firm pressure. If the hub is bad you will likely feel some vibration or grinding through the tire.

Still, would suspect a tire first. Try rotating them.

 

[chrisH!]

You sure?

Romeoville, You sure its an open diff? I thought that AWD meant limited slip diffs, unlike 4X4 which has open diffs? OK, I will try that tomorrow.

 

[chrisH!]

still there

Romeoville, You are right, it is an open diff. Jacked it up. everything seems to roll smooth, forward and reverse, from both sides. I swapped the front and rear tires but I still have the same symptoms. While I had the front in the air I tried to check for front end play, everything is tight except for when I turn (not rotate, but turn) the wheels by hand I hear a slight clunk from the area of the steering rack. Do you think an alignment or possibly a bad steering rack/pinion could be the problem???

 

[RomeovilleIL]

Slight clunk is usually a tie rod end. The test is with the tires on the ground and engine off wiggle the steering wheel back and forth a little. Bad tie rod ends (inner or outer) as you move the steering wheel outward, the tire moves out but when you turn it back in the tire will not move until the wheel has turned a little ways. If the tie rods are good there is no play and the tire moves immediately in both directions when the wheel is turned even small amounts. Best to do with engine off so you can hear any noises.

 

[blakshukvw]

The symptoms you describe with a whoomp noise while turning is synonymous with wheel bearings. It is louder on left turns from the right front because that's when the right bearing gets loaded. If you saw the wheel back and forth while cruising about 35-40 mph you'll hear it come and go while loading and unloading the right wheel bearing. And like mentioned, bearings don't always reveal themselves by shaking the wheel when the truck is lifted.

 

[chrisH!]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help

Yes the whoop whoop sound is bad when going around left curves but now it is starting to do it on right curves as well. Wheel bearings makes sense but I had them replaced 2200 miles ago? Lower ball joints were done at the same time. The real problem is the shudder/vibration, it is getting much worse. Now it is happening in a wider speed range, 20-35 MPH, annoying. The harder you push the gas the worse it gets and as soon as I let off the gas it stops. Could this be driveshaft U joints I am thinking? They seem tight to me but who knows.If I remove the front driveshaft and test it out, is there any danger to the transfer case, my concern is the yoke coming out, on older cars the rear shaft was open once you removed the shaft, I know most Fords use companion flanges but I am not sure if this one does....I know, just go look, but it is raining here today and I am old ! LOL!

 

[blakshukvw]

Could be a u joint on the front drive shaft. Also could be worn cc joint cages on the front half shafts. Worn cc joints usually cause a vibration under mild or hard acceleration.

If the wheel bearings were not installed properly or the axle nut not torque then the new bearings could be bad already. Otherwise it's unlikely that the bearings are the source of the noise. How are your tires wearing? Do you have any feathering on the tread blocks inside or outside? What brand tires do you have? Do you know what the road force measurement on each tire is?

Now that I think about your complaints it makes me think that maybe the front axles were not torque properly and maybe this has ruined the bearings and since the axles are loose you're picking up a vibration through them not unlike what I described with worn cc joints. Check the torque on the front axle bolts. It is in the range of 150 to 210 ft lbs. I do them at 180.

 

[chrisH!]

axle nuts

I checked the torque on both axle nuts with a break away torque wrench set at 180 ft/lb and got no movement so they are at lest at 180. Tires are BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A, all four have 6000 miles on them and I see no unusual wearing. This is the second set of these tires I have had on the truck, I got about 70000 out of the first set.

 

[swshawaii]

Extreme long shot here only because it seems you've checked everything else. Front sway bar end links are highly prone to failure, but usually cause vibration and noises at lower speeds over bumps and when turning. Use a rubber mallet and hit them for looseness, or better yet, unload the front suspension and lift front tires to check. Also inspect the sway bar frame bushings and ALL control arm bushings for wear or movement. GL

Bending Or Breaking Sway Bar Links (Older Style w/Thermoplastic Rubber Bushings)
http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pdf_En/MOOG_PS_Bulletin_25471_K7275_En.pdf

Non-Socket Style Sway Bar Kit (Newer Style w/Polyurethane Bushings)
http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pdf_en1/MOOG_PS_Bulletin_213006_Sway_Bar_Link_Eng.pdf

 

[chrisH!]

sway bars

I have had to replace the front sway bar links twice in the past, the head of the bolt just snapped off both times, gave a loud clunk on every bump, not what I am hearing now. The rear sway bar is bad, I had to remove one link since the frame connection point rusted out. Do you think it is possible that the problem is actually in the rear, it definitely seems to come from the front?

 

[RomeovilleIL]

Check the inner tie rod ends.

 

[chrisH!]

update

Romeoville, there really is no play in the tie rods. With engine off, rocking the steering wheel back and forth there is a small click but it within the rack/pinion unit. It has a shaft coming out each side with a tie rod end connecting them to the knuckle, neither end has slop, bot tires move at the same time. Regarding the shudder under acceleration, think I found the culprit. It must be getting worse because now I feel play in the back rear U joint ( on the rear diff). I held the differential companion flange in one hand and and rocked the driveshaft back and forth, getting a good amount of slop. I would think that would cause a shudder under load.

 

[chrisH!]

new zerk's?

Guys, just picked up new U joints for the rear driveshaft. They don't have the conventional Zerk grease fitting, they have this smaller fitting that screws into the end of one of the bearing caps??? have you seen these before? They are Moog high strength joints but I have never seen these grease fittings before, I guess I need to buy a new grease gun attachment.

 

[blakshukvw]

I checked the torque on both axle nuts with a break away torque wrench set at 180 ft/lb and got no movement so they are at lest at 180. Tires are BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A, all four have 6000 miles on them and I see no unusual wearing. This is the second set of these tires I have had on the truck, I got about 70000 out of the first set.

You should maybe loosen the axle nut and retorque it. If it was over torque when installed the bearings could be toast again.

BIG tires are not the best quality tires and usually have high road force. But if your tire wear is some heat even then keep looking elsewhere.