Gasolines, What you may not know!!

[grtexplorer]

Positive - I think I might be able to answer your question to a degree.

I used to work for TransMontaigne - a gasoline/diesel terminaling & trading company. Watching our traders go was like watching a microcosm of the stock market in action. Same thing everywhere you go - buy low, sell high (or as high as you can) with minimum 25,000 bbl contracts. They would buy a lot from refineries, but they also picked up stuff already in the pipe if the price was right. All gas in the pipes or in storage had to meet min. specs. or else it couldn't be sold as motor fuel.

After that I worked for BP in the Unbranded Fuels dept. and had to price gas/diesel every night for the next day's market. We sold to Racetrac and all the stations that were independent (not BP or some other brand). The margins weren't great but we made money by selling in large volumes.

As before, the motor fuel product had to meet min. specs. that all gas must meet as mandated by the feds. The difference between the Unbranded vs. Branded product was the amount of propietary additives that were added at the loading stations at the terminals. The Branded product of course receives more additive, so this plus the brand name it was sold as contributed to the higher cost, thus higher margins.

Hope that helps.

BBQ - I've seen your responses to unclemeat. I'm not interested in entering a flame war - just relating what I know.

 

[BBQ_HotDogs]

Sorry to all if I seemed out of line. unclemeat got me going, as I am sure he intended. I am not the best around, but when the best are called, I stand up. What has really got me here, is this statement he made by himself after arguing with me like 2 children in a school room over who was going to clean the erasers. Here I quote from unclemeat.

I get my facts from the people who distribute gasoline.

Now if that aint the blind leading the blind. All of my information that I have is readily available from the American Petroleum Institute manuals. These are not some books that someone wrote to make money on, these are the bible of our profession. They state everything from running API's, (to determine the weight), to which tests to run for which product and the min req specs to the max req specs. Everything has to fit into that catergory regardless. It is distrubuted by the Government as a guidline and instructions. No operator sitting at a desk pushing buttons to open a valve will know these. Much less will he know the tests results when products are tested, except for the API and if it was on spec or not.

Once again, I apologize for my remarks, it will not happen again. My button was pushed, but now is re-set.

Thanks to all for listening.
HotDogs - Just trying to help....

 

[BBQ_HotDogs]

Sorry to all if I seemed out of line. unclemeat got me going, as I am sure he intended. I am not the best around, but when the best are called, I stand up. What has really got me here, is this statement he made by himself after arguing with me, like 2 children in a school room over who was going to clean the erasers. Here I quote from unclemeat.

I get my facts from the people who distribute gasoline.

Now if that aint the blind leading the blind.
For Chris.
All of my information that I have is readily available from the American Petroleum Institute manuals. These are not some books that someone wrote to make money on, these are the bible of our profession. They state everything from running API's, (to determine the weight), to which tests to run for which product and the min req specs to the max req specs. Everything has to fit into that catergory regardless. It is distrubuted by the Government as a guidline and instructions.

No operator sitting at a desk pushing buttons to open a valve will know these. Much less will he know the tests results when products are tested, except for the API and if it was on spec or not.

Once again, I apologize for my remarks, it will not happen again. My button was pushed, but now is re-set.

Thanks to all for listening.
HotDogs - I was just trying to help....

Let us Never Forget -

http://www.thincgrafx.com/movie.html

 

[socky3850]

I'm not sure that there is any difference in brands of gas. There are only two pipelines bringing gas into the Phoenix area, one from Texas and one from California. In addition, the Phoenix area uses a formulation of gasoline that is used only in Phoenix. When the Texas pipeline was shut down last summer, every station regardless of brand ran out of gas. All of delivery trucks go to the same terminals to get the gas that comes out of these two pipelines. Given the number of different brands of gas and only two sources of gas, I find it hard to believe that there is any difference between brands.

 

[BBQ_HotDogs]

Just for the record. Some web sites that are the standards for all petroleum.
www.api-ec.api.org/newsplashpage/index.cfm
www.api.org
www.api-ep.api.org

 

[BBQ_HotDogs]

I did something wrong with the web sites. Only 1 will open.

 

[RPheezy]

First off, can't someone (independent chemist, chemical company, etc.) test gas from the big companies and small companies to determine what's better or worse or what the chemical composition is or what has more beneficial additives than others? I'm sure this had to have been done by a newspaper, 20/20, Dateline, etc. I'm sure somewhere on the Internet, there is a white paper or documentation about this issue.

Secondly, regarding the price differences in the mom and pops versus the big brands this can partially be attributed to marketing. First, grtexplorer said that some companies put in more additives than others. Couple this with the branding of the additive such as "Techron" or "76 with Pro Power" and companies can hike up the price because of the increased perceived value. This is called a differentiation strategy, in which companies create a real or perceived value to make you pay more for stuff. Second, larger companies have higher expenses to cover than mom and pops stores. Shell, Chevron, and 76 have to pay for their huge overhead expenses (advertising, administrative, general, etc.) inherent in being a large corporation.

Nike is a great example of both of these points. They have branded their shoe as being cooler, more innovative, and better than other brands and can charge a higher price for their shoes. They also have to pay guys like LeBron James somewhere like $100 million dollars for being a spokesman, which is a marketing expense that anyone who buys a Nike product is paying for. Sure you can buy the unbranded shoe at your local Payless shoes or Target and you can still jump as high, run as fast, or play as well as if you had Nike gear. From experience, I buy Nike gear for both the perceived and real value it provides me. I like to sport the cool gear, but I also notice that the materials and durability of their products is better than others.

Regarding gas, I think that an independent test along with the ramifications of the branded versus unbranded gas in a car engine should be explored or researched. If there are tangible benefits to branded gas, then I think everyone needs to know.

 

[BBQ_HotDogs]

For Socky,
I was walking away from this thread and the more I thought about it, the more it ate at me because you have a legitamate question about pipeline transfers. I will try and make this short and as simple as I can so that maybe you will understand how a pipeline works.

Let's say that Shell, Exxon, and Texaco all want to send 250,000 BBLS of Gasoline a piece to your area. Each one saying that we have the best gas. After they have made the deal to sell it to you, then it must be made, tested, reservations have to be set up with the pipeline on availability to ship it. Usually this is a first come first served theory. But for this conversation, all complete the major tasks first. All gasoline is available at the storage facility in Texas at the pipeline facility. However they get there is unimportant, barge, ship, truck, etc. But it is there, it is then tested. Once it is OK's by an independent lab, the results are given to many people. But the person requesting the analysis and paying for it, gets it first, period.
Now let's say this pipeline at normal run is going at 100psi. To make it easy let's also that the run is approx. 1000 barrels an hour. The pipeline then will tell Texaco, Shell, and Exxon there window for delivery. Say Texaco is first on the board, then Shell, Then Exxon. OK we know that the product is running 1000 BBS an hour, to get rid of 250,000 BBLS it will take 25 hours. So whenever Texaco starts transfer, then approx. 25 hours will be Shell and 25 hours after that will be Exxon's turn. So we guage on Texaco's tank or tanks to transfer from, assuming all is on test. We know they have more than 250,000 available, this is a must. Now the pipeline has a meter system. This meter system is pretty darn accurate, but still can fault. That is why we have already calculated stop gauges for each and every tank that Texaco has so it is double checked for accuracy. As soon as Texaco's gas is in the pipeline and going, the pipeline people will make a flying switch to Shell's tanks. They are now pumping 250,000 bbls of gas and no stop was made. They finish, then Exxon's tanks go into action. By this time, let's say Valero wants to transfer 500,000 bbls of diesel to you. They are to followExxon's gasoline. But gasoline and diesel don't mix. By calculations and meters, we will know approx. when on your end that all 750,000 bbls of gasoline have gone through that line for each customer by the use of meters and samples. So on your end, by using meters and dump tanks, when time comes by calculations, meters, and flow meter, first will be Texaco's 250,000, then Shell's 250,000, then we will give Exxon 249,500 bbls and use 500 bbls to dump for contamination of diesel. Still standing at a bleeder valve open, taking sample after sample, till we know that we are getting pure diesel fuel, it is getting dumped into a dump tank before we make the switch to go to Valero's tanks to empty the contents of diesel fuel oil. Valero will also come up short on product. But that is the game. After all of each client's product is in his storage tank, it is tested to make sure it is what it is suppose to be. Only tests can tell. This goes on over and over and over.

What happens to all of the cargo that went into the dump tank you ask. It is sold to the highest bidders and remanufactored, seperated if you must.

Also, if this gas is to be branded, say Chevron wants to put techron in it so they can call it there new formulated techron additive gasoline, then they pump there mysterous additive into the tank and wha la, you have branded gasoline waiting on trucks to pick up. A truck can hold a little over 100 bbls of gasoline or diesel fuel in 1 trip to the local gas station. That is allot of gasoline for the cars around.

Another note. Ever wonder why gasoline and diesel is stored underground at the stations for the consumer? It's because the ground is a constand 60 degrees and that is the degree to which all products are calculated.

So here is more food for thought on the gas mileage issue. When a tank truck comes in to unload it's gasoline in the winter at the gas station, did you know that if you buy it right at that time, while it is cold, you get more than you pay for, but the same token in the summer when it is hot, you get less, but only before it has had time to settle to ambient temperature which is 60 degrees.

HotDogs, Hope this helps

 

[unclemeat]

If you buy gas at a branded filling station and you think you are getting a different product thant the non-brand across the street you are fooloing yourself.

 

[Opera House]

Jungle Juice, does it matter

A little jet fuel, some diesel, it all burns. I've run off brands for 30 years. My buddy who is a boat mechanic gives me old boat gas that he won't even put in his lawnmower. I'll mix a couple of gallons with the good in my Explorers. I've never had any problems in several hundred K, so what's the beef.

 

[bunny]

Here is something I think everybody will agree on.
Branded or un-branded gasoline or whatever gasoline for that matter... dont drink it...he!he!
let's cool off the thread a bit

 

[99explorer5.0]

There are many different types of gas out there. When i eat Taco bell the smell is horrible and they come more frequent ... if i eat Burger King it will have a differnt odor and not come as often. They came from the same pipeline but different smell and quality.