I Beg For Your Help!!!

[razorbaxfan1]

BROKEN SPARK PLUG HELP! (Two Pages)

Please don't be discouraged by the length of this and leave the message...it's the holidays and I need help. PLEASE!

Okay, here's what happened. My 97 XLT 5.0L V8 wasn't running like it used to. I inspected the plug wires and noticed they had the year 1997 on them. In other words, the plugs and wires were the originals still in the vehicle. I bought new plugs and wires, hoping to install them with no problem. I found that the easiest way was to take the rim off (I started passenger side) and work from the fender well. This wasn't a problem at first.

I took the rim off. I got some extensions and started taking out the plugs. This was on the passenger side. I was able to remove the first two (plugs 1 & 2) with no problem. I got to three and it was really stiff. Not having any anti-seize handy, I gave it a little more pressure than the others, obviously. I didn't force the issue. The damn thing broke. Now I mean it didn't just bust the ceramic part off where I can still get the spark plug socket on the nut, the freakin nut busted off. Now this is hard to explain - but basically all I can see is the ceramic part and metal core, and it's flush with the head. I can't get anything on it to get it out.

A neighbor of mine saw my dilemma and suggested maybe drilling a small hole in the middle and using an easy-out to see if it can come out. The thread is still inside the head. I was afraid to do this, seeing as how I didn't want to get anything in the cylinder. I think I'm going to have to have someone tap the head and get that thing out. I'm afraid this is going to be extremely expensive. The damn thing was rusted so much that the nut just plain broke. Remember, these were the original Motorcraft plugs I was trying to remove. For the record, #4 came out just fine. I was afraid to screw with the other side.

Also, I started it up and it ran...on 7 cylinders, of course. Not having that #3 firing made a huge difference, as I have very little power & acceleration. Plus, there's a foul smell coming from the engine. I have the coil packs, not a distributor. I covered the coil where the #3 sat with black tape just in case, and left the #3 wire off altogether.

Anyone have any ideas how to help a fellow Explorer? I'm desperate...it's holiday season and I can't really afford this problem right now. I've used this forum lots before and I just need to know if there's a way to bail me out.

 

[hermitrl]

I think if you CAREFULLY drill out the center of the plug and play around a bit you can get it out. My bro had this happen to his car at a local garage and it cost him over 300 extra to get it removed. If the threads DO get fouled up---a helicoil kit may be needed. I would take it to a garage myself---as a new head would be major bucks. I don't know why they ever started making heads out of aluminum. The say go 100000 miles without changing the plugs---but the end up seizing in there. Good Luck.

 

[DirtyDog]

If you do drill it and ues an easy-out, after you drill it and just before you attempt to take it out with the easy-out, heat the area with a propane torch. I find that heating stubborn nuts and bolts, they usually come off better.

It's worth a try cause my GF's dad had a Toyota that he took to the stealership to get the plugs changedand they had to freeze 2 of them with liquid nitrogen to get them out and it cost him an extra hour labor.


Good luck!!

 

[razorbaxfan1]

Thanks for the reply. Everything I'm reading says I have to have the head removed. Does anyone have a clue how much this SHOULD cost? I honestly can't afford much this time of year, nobody can. Lots of internet sites are saying to use anti-seize and drill carefully and use an easy-out. Now I know these are angled, and a drill would be tough to use accurately. Should I mess with that? The thread is still in the cylinder wall, so eventually it will come out. It's just a pain getting the old rusty plugs to come out of an iron head. I agree....I wish they were all aluminum, and I know most are nowadays. I also read that this is relatively more common in the Ford 302 than other engines.

Comments,suggestions anyone? Thanks so much for helping out a fellow Explorer.

 

[Anime]

I would just use the easy-out drill bits. Use the largest one that will do the job, just be sure you drill straight. Hopefully this will spin out the remaining threaded part. If not, just drill all the way through into the cylinder, being careful not to go any farther in than the electrode tip. Now just use a left-hand thread tap or similar removal device, with a ratchet for torque, stuck into the hold you just drilled, which will bite into the remaining part of the core or threaded sleeve as its twisted counterclockwise to loosen it. Once its out, use a soft plastic tube that fits into the plug hole along with some duct tape to make a custom shop-vac attachment, and stick it into the plug hole to suck out all the debris in the combustion chamber. I would say buying the tools (easy-out set, thread taps, ratchet set, even a small shop vac too) would cost about 1/4 to 1/2 of what you'd have to pay to have pretty much the same thing done at a shop. Just be sure to remove anything in the way in the engine compartment, have enough good lighting, and do this when you have hours to spare and can take your sweet time, going slowly rather than messing up the head or worse from doing a rush job and slipping up. If you aren't up to doing this yourself, either have the dealer do it, or find a good performance shop that deals with such problems to do the dirty work for you.

 

[razorbaxfan1]

Anyone know what a good price would be to have someone remove the head and drill out that plug for me?

I appreciate the tip. I wonder how much damage I can do as far as getting stuff in that chamber. The vacuum idea you just suggested seemed genius, but on the other side of that plug, I don't know what to expect or what's in there or how to be sure everything I may get in there is out.

Keep in mind, these are angled. I'm not sure if I'm going to have an easy time getting an easy-out in there. Anyone have anymore advice? It seems like the consensus I'm gathering is to drill a hole and use an easy-out. I've never used one of these, but I feel like I don't have a choice because I'm broke. I didn't anticipate this happening at all.

By the way, if you read this again, how are things in Hattiesburg? I love that town.

 

[hermitrl]

Big--expensive job to remove the head. You shouldn't need to do that if you or the garage is careful. You should spray some WD40 or similar and let it soak in to try and break up the corrosion---may make the job easier.

 

[Anime]

A good price would be anything less than $200-300. You may wind up paying alot more if some place removes the head to remove the plug. You could always call up the dealer Monday morning to describe the situation and get an estimate.

The angle of the plug doesn't matter, except for getting to it. The easy-out just has to be going into the center of it, and at the same angle as the plug is in the head. You can use another plug to mark the length of the threaded part on the easy-out so you don't go past that. You could always just drill the easy-out 3/4 of the way in, then use the left-hand tap to twist it out, which would keep the debris out of the combustion chamber if that was a concern, but my guess would be alot of it is going to crumble with all the twisting anyway until the tap digs into the metal sleeve the threads are on, depending on how stuck it is.

If you've never used an easy-out, or aren't handly enough with tools or experienced in working on stuff like this, you might want to just skip the do-it-yourselfing and pony up the dough for a shop to do it rather than risking a worse problem or having to buy a new head. On the flipside, if you can just remove the head yourself, you're just out the price of new gaskets if you can twist out the plug on the other end, or maybe slightly more if you have to take just the head to a shop to have it removed.

I don't condone shady behavior, but you could always use ceramic glue on the part that broke off to glue it back to the part in the head, then just stick the plug wire on, and take it to the dealer for a tune-up because it's really lacking power....then go ballistic when they say it'll be two days because one of the plugs snapped in half.... Perhaps they'll only charge for the tuneup...

Hattiesburg is a nice town, but too boring.

 

[razorbaxfan1]

Thanks so much for the good information. You're giving me confidence that I can do this. If I do drill into the plug and use an easy-out, I'll obviously be very careful. I have a question about that though - say I used the vacuum idea you proposed (which I thought was pretty logical). Would it be safe? I mean, how would I know that I got everything out? I'm guessing it's one of those situations where I cross my fingers and hope to hell I did it right. I have a feeling that I'm going to get a little in there when I'm jamming in that easy-out. I've talked to a few local shops and they're wanting to charge me $700 to pull the head. It's the week of Thanksgiving - $700 isn't floating in my bank account right now.

BIG QUESTION - I'm running the thing on 7 cylinders right now because I have no choice really, it's my only transportation right now. I know that the injector is pushing fuel to that cylinder...how long can I drive it in this condition? It sounds terrible, but it runs...idles really rough. Anyone run on 7 cylinders? If so, what was your experience, and how long did you do it? What are the dangers? I'm wanting to postpone this repair work for as long as possible without killing my X.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Lee S.]

Maybe it's me, but I would not run it on 7 cylinders....I'd be worried about damaging the cats.

Just a thought, but after you get the plug out and vacuum the pieces, you might as well run the engine before you put the new plug in....maybe any remaining crumbs will be blown out the spark plug hole.

Lee

 

[shaggsta]

Thanks for the reply. Everything I'm reading says I have to have the head removed.
Comments,suggestions anyone? Thanks so much for helping out a fellow Explorer.

WHen I bought my X, I replaced the plugs and 2 broke off in the head, same way your's did. EZ Out is the way I got the out and didn't have to remove the head at all. It took about 30 minutes and didn't cost a thing. I believe the plugs were from the factory or not much newer. Good Luck

 

[shaggsta]

Oh forgot an integral part, we started the engine, blew all the ceramic out and left only the metal thread... made it real easy and nothing to fall into the cylinder.

 

[sk1er17]

if the threads are seized enough for the plug to brake like that, you WILL deffinetally need to heat it up with a torch prior to attempting using an easy-out.

and because it's ceramic- i can see the easy-out threads just chewing it up and not causing it to spin. a little trick i learned is drill a straight line in it, decently thin and get a flat-head screwdriver that has a huge endge, and try to spin it out with that.

whatever you end up doing... good luck

 

[Anime]

The vacuum idea was just to give a solution to your concern about not having any way to get any debris out from the cylinder after getting the plug out. As mentioned, you could also just run the engine for a VERY short while with the plug hole open, however I would suggest doing this AFTER sucking out the larger debris with the vacuum to avoid any possible valve damage or whatnot from large pieces of debris. Any smaller dust particles you miss with a few runs of the vacuum will easily get blown out, either with running the engine, or using a blow-gun air compressor attachment. If you're really really worried about this, you can do a combo of using the vacuum, then the blow gun, then vacumming again, etc. etc. until you're sure it's clean. Those little pick-up magnets could also be used to stick in the hole to pick up any metal shavings.

I would suggest doing this repair sooner rather than later. It's unlikely any major damage will result from running on 7 cylinders for a number of short trips, but prolonging the fix isn't going to help anything. I would really suggest doing the repair once you have gathered all the necessary tools (anything you're not sure you'll need, just buy and keep in the package with receipt, you can return it if you don't need it) and have the time. You might find the easy-out takes care of it with no sweat, or just drilling and using the tap is almost as easy.

I wouldn't heat the plug or head or anything to do this job. If anything, you want the plug and head as cold as possible since cold causes metal to contract, which would let the plug be just a bit looser. Heat would expand the head and plug, making it that much tighter and difficult to loosen.

If you're really having confidence issues with this, grab a buddy who works on cars to do it with, or get in touch with some board members in your area who might be willing to help you out, maybe even using their tools and time for a twelve-pack or something.

 

[Lee S.]

Okay...I don't want to alarm you but this time of year brings back memories of something that happened to me on Thanksgiving day 17 years ago.

Just bought a brand new Volkswagon Jedda and was driving with the wife from LI to Brooklyn for Thanksgiving dinner (about a 60 mile trip). The car started running on 3 (out of 4) cylinders and I'm thinking I must have got a bad tank of gas before the trip. So what do you do...it's Thanksgiving day...got relatives waiting...no one to call etc. So I drove it the way it was...ran real rough with no power. Anyway, I made it to Brooklyn, had dinner and figured I go out and find a gas station and top of the tank with some 'good' gas and see if it ran better for the trip back home. Anyway, ran it on 3 cylinders to the local gas station, filled it up and left. Still running bad and about a block away I see flames shooting out from under the car engulfing the outside of the vehicle. Ran back to the gas station called 911 and the firetrucks showed up right away. Good thing too since I was double parked next to a row of cars and in between them was a small sidewalk and then a whole block of typical Brooklyn attached row houses. I'm thinking and freaking about a chain reaction setting of the rest of the parked cars and a whole block of houses. So the first fireman off the truck axes in my windows and the others proceeded to spray water all over and eventually put out the fire...the car was totaled but the houses were safe.

I tell you this story only because to this day I figured that the fire was caused by the unconsumed fuel in the hot catalytic converter resulting from running it on 3 cylinders. Now I have no way of knowing if this was for sure the cause...could have been a fuel pump or something for all I know but my point is that I wouldn't push my luck running on 7 cylinder in your case. Especially since you seem to be in a similar situation.....getting to Thanksgiving festivities not running on all cylinders. Would not want to see history repeat itself.

Lee

 

[razorbaxfan1]

I'm very happy to hear from each and every one of you. Thanks again for the knowledge.

Just wanted to gain some clarification on something. I really have no choice but to run it on 7 cylinders, at least for the remainder of the week. I live 3.5 miles from my employer, and I drive to and from twice daily, driving a total of approximately 14-15 miles. I realize that with 7 cylinders, there is unconsumed fuel. A guy I talked to at work said that cylinder is filling up with fuel, and when I pull the plug, I'm going to have to deal with some of that. Is this true?

The only reason I ask these questions is because it is that time of year. I am broke as a joke, completely not expecting this. I was unwise to attempt any work on my car by myself at this point, but I'll call that a lesson learned. I just want to know what I can get away with. Naturally, I can deal with less acceleration and a slight pinging noise if it gets me by for a week or two. Plus, my AWD Ex. is the type of transportation I'll be needing the next couple weeks anyway with the white stuff predicted to be falling soon.

What it boils down to is this:

1. How long would YOU run this thing on 7 cylinders if you were broke? At what point (if there is one) does safety start playing a major issue?

2. The plug that's stuck in the head has a little ceramic around it and I can see part of the metal core. When I start drilling, where is the metal core going to go? I believe that with my dad owning a tire shop, we can find a long metal magnet and he definitely has the compressor tools. Also, how much is a right angle drill? If you can envision this, it's the #3 cylinder on the passenger side. It's hard to get to, right behind the joints & stuff. How do you suggest I get around that?

3. What do you honestly think my best avenue for success is? I appreciate the tips, and I'll definitely give them a go. The best price I found within 50 miles of where I live to pull the head and put a new gasket on (which will obviously be necessary if they pull the head) was $480, plus tax, looking at over $500. That seems too obvious to me, but success will be defined by being able to get this fixed with little pain & money spent. What would YOU do if you were in my position? Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?


I'm sorry this was really wordy. If you can imagine my plight, you'll probably be able to sympathize with me...I'm broke as hell and for this to happen this time of year just plain sucks. Not looking for pity, but you know what I mean. It just bites.

Thanks for all your input, fellas.

 

[Lee S.]

I'm no expert but I would think that any unconsummed fuel is being discharged thru the exhaust valve and into the exhaust system rather than accumulating in the cylinder as your friend suggests. This is why I suggested earlier that you not drive on 7 cyls.

I have never seen the inside of a spark plug and this is really out there but..... if the broken plug is still sealing up the spark plug hole and if any metal part of the center of the spark plug is exposed, you might be able to run a jumper wire from there to the spark plug wire. This may enable you to deliver a spark to the old plug stump and get it refiring that cylinder. Or maybe something like driving a small finishing nail dead center into the stub and connecting a jumper wire to the spark wire and see if it fires. As you can tell I'm really grasping at straws to come up with something for you.... If this miracle works, it will buy you some time to get to you dad's tire shop and get the stump properly removed.

If you must drive in on 7 cyls., I would check the cat thoroughly at every stop and pack a fire extinguisher.

Lee

 

[Anime]

Fuel is still being delivered to the cylinder, and the plug is not firing to ignite the air/fuel mixture. The exhaust valve opens, and theres nowhere else for it to go. It's not such a big deal for a little while with regular driving on short trips, but prolonged driving like this or things like highway driving, uphill driving, etc that really heat up the exhaust and catalytic converter in particular do make for a fire hazard.
.
Personally, if this happened to my X, I would just do exactly what I've said to you as soon as it happened, and never drive it on less than all cylinders. I'd grab the drill and easy out, drill into the plug, then if it still doesn't come out, use a left hand tap to twist it out. Anything thats left I'd use pliers, a magnet, and vacuum to clean up, then maybe clean up the threads with a spark plug tap, install a new plug and have the tune-up done with a little extra hassle.

When you start drilling the plug, anything that comes off is going to go down on the ground or around the head. Once you get through to the other side, the stuff you're drilling will get into the combustion chamber. Keep in mind its possible that the easy-out twists that sucker loose before it drills through, and you get NO debris in the chamber at all, other than maybe some rust from the threads. A right angle drill is like $70-150 depending on what you want, but you can rent them at some home centers and industrial equipment places for $5-15 a day. The trick to doing a good job here is removing as much of the stuff blocking the head and the hole as possible. Look through the passenger side fenderwell and see if removing the tire/wheel, and inner fender will give you heads-on access to the hole.

Since you are having so much trouble with this, I would say your best avenue for success is finding someone through the board, or maybe at a performance shop who will do the job for cheap, or help you out. If your dad at the tire shop knows his way around an engine, then maybe you should have him take a whack at it. This really is not a complex problem. Good preperation and using the right tools is essential, but delaying the repair or putting it off until later isn't going to change anything. There is always a slight risk with any such non-standard repair, and the only real problems I can think of is if the easy-out is drilled into the head enough to mess up the threads, or large debris left in the cylinder getting stuck when a valve is closing. However, even if the head gets messed up, you just buy a head (used at a salvage yard), have it installed, and everythings better.

Also bear in mind, spending a little money now (even borrowing or getting a loan if necessary) to repair the vehicle that gets you to and from work makes a lot more sense than putting off an easy repair, causing more damage, and/or possibly causing a fire and THEN having to have the whole engine or front end replaced from fire damage, or having replace the whole thing and be without ANY transportation.

 

[Brain]

To keep fuel from being introduced, just unplug the fuel injector for that cylinder...it is as easy as that. This will bring the exhaust gas temperature down, leave oxygen levels high (CEL light will come on from an erroneous "lean burn" reading from the O2 sensor), and still not have the cylinder firing, but at least it will keep the engine from "FIRE"'ing ; )

 

[razorbaxfan1]

Thanks a lot for your input, guys. I think I'm going to give it a shot this weekend with the right angle drill and an easy-out. I'll be sure to have the vacuum & stuff ready just in case.

I had a hard time searching for problems like this on the internet and knew I could count on the good people on this board to help out. Consider your time & typing a good deed for a poor person. I really needed the input and can't afford the money it may take to have everything removed & replaced, etc.

Thanks again guys, you'll hear from me early next week about the experience. I'll post everything I did in hopes of helping out others like me in the future. That is, if everything works out well.

Happy Thanksgiving to each of you. :exp: