Is there an advantage to raising or lowering tire psi ?

[J_C]

^ At -3 I'd have just eyeballed the tires and waited till later to fix anything not looking nearly flat. Besides, a little under inflation helps snow & ice traction.

 

[HughCares]

^ Besides, a little under inflation helps snow & ice traction.

Actually the exact opposite is true....a little over-inflation in the winter months provides better traction on snow/ice....under inflated tires will perform more poorly and wear much faster....you are incorrect with your comment.....

 

[J_C]

^ Evidence ? I have a lifetime of that. Wear on ice and snow is arbitrary and a silly thing to mention.
Try it both ways then get back to me.

In snow and ice you want the maximum vertical tread patch possible, unto the point of limiting damage. Study tank tread or snowmobiles for a similarity.

Maintaining higher pressure for that is a dangerous, ill informed, ridiculous idea.

 

[HughCares]

^ Evidence ? I have a lifetime of that. Wear on ice and snow is arbitrary and a silly thing to mention.
Try it both ways then get back to me.

In snow and ice you want the maximum vertical tread patch possible, unto the point of limiting damage. Study tank tread or snowmobiles for a similarity.

Maintaining higher pressure for that is a dangerous, ill informed, ridiculous idea.

LOL....your lifetime of experience has been a lifetime of myths my friend. Just do a simple search on the internet and you educate yourself. I could quote numerous websites that support my position...go look for yourself. Also...the wear isn't limited to just driving on ice and snow...in case you hadn't noticed, the pavement can also be extremely cold, but dry as well....that is why they are called "winter tires" and not just snow tires. It is on this surface where the most wear will come in to play.....

Tire pressures are supposed to be checked "cold" and many people park their vehicles in their garages and this is also likely where they do their readings...the outside air will be cooler in the majority of cases, hence the suggestion (even by the tire manufacturers) to over inflate 3-5 lbs. I'm sure that you are also familiar with science as well to know that as the outside air temperature drops, so will the air pressure in the tires....Therefore lowering the air pressure below the mfg's recommended level as you suggest is even more idiotic.

All I have to say is do your homework, and properly inform yourself. Just because you have done something for a lifetime, doesn't mean you are right.

 

[J_C]

that is why they are called "winter tires" and not just snow tires. It is on this surface where the most wear will come in to play.....

Winter tires? I never wrote anything about winter tires nor changing tires at all, was always talking about same tires year 'round. It should never be assumed someone changes tires for winter unless specifically mentioned because in many areas there may be snow and ice one day then clear pavement and higher temps the next, where you don't want winter tires and it wouldn't be practical to change them every week.

Having slightly higher wear (I'm not talking about a large decrease, tires usually drop by themselves) beats a tow or accident. Non-winter tires are a harder compound that won't keep as good contact patch as temperature drops.

Then again there are supposed "experts" on the internet that claim both higher and lower are better as well as those who claim pressure should be kept the same. The thing is, those who recommend against it tend to make sweeping statements that aren't true with the fear that people will let their tire pressure drop low enough to cause handling problems, trying to play baby sitter with a lie to "help" because it's not their fault if we get in an accident due to snow or ice but may be if they recommend anything other than car tire sticker inflation level.

 

[peterk9]

Best rule of thumb is to always check your tire pressures when they are cold and keep them at the recommended psi as indicated on your vehicle's sticker governing inflation, regardless of the season.

Peter

 

[amd2800barton]

^ Evidence ? [...] Maintaining higher pressure for that is a dangerous, ill informed, ridiculous idea.

Tire Rack would seem to disagree with you.

Several vehicle manufacturer's owner's manuals recommend operating winter tires several psi (typically 3-5) higher than their recommended pressures for summer and all-season tires.

You may be conflating low-traction conditions in sand and gravel (where you want to lower tire pressure to spread out the vehicle weight) with low traction conditions in cold wet (where you want the tread to perform as designed and cut through the snow/slush/wet to reach pavement). Sounds like you want to leave your tire pressure at Ford's suggested set point, or possibly slightly above.

 

[J_C]

Tire Rack would seem to disagree with you.

You may be conflating low-traction conditions in sand and gravel (where you want to lower tire pressure to spread out the vehicle weight) with low traction conditions in cold wet (where you want the tread to perform as designed and cut through the snow/slush/wet to reach pavement). Sounds like you want to leave your tire pressure at Ford's suggested set point, or possibly slightly above.

Tire rack has to deal with tire failure from excessively low pressure and mileage claims, NOT you getting stuck or wrecking.

It is seldom the case that tires actually cut through snow and ice to pavement unless the snow was very light and fluffy but in that case I agree that there is minimal to no benefit from pressure reduction.

 

[amd2800barton]

Tire rack has to deal with tire failure from excessively low pressure and mileage claims, NOT you getting stuck or wrecking.

It is seldom the case that tires actually cut through snow and ice to pavement unless the snow was very light and fluffy but in that case I agree that there is minimal to no benefit from pressure reduction.

You're right that TireRack has no vested interest in whether or not its customers crash and die... but state departments of transportation do.
From the first page on google for "lower tire pressure for winter":

Likewise, you may hear that reducing tire pressure is another way of increasing traction. Reducing air pressure will not give you more traction and your tires could become seriously underinflated, affecting steering. Keep in mind that every time the outside temperature drops 10 degrees, the tire air pressure goes down about one pound per square inch. Remember too that underinflated tires are the major cause of tire failure.

A number of other webpages support that you should keep your tires properly inflated for on-road driving. Sorry about your old notions about winter-tire pressure, but they're incorrect. The best thing to do is follow the experts advice and keep your tires properly inflated year-round.

 

[HughCares]

A number of other webpages support that you should keep your tires properly inflated for on-road driving. Sorry about your old notions about winter-tire pressure, but they're incorrect. The best thing to do is follow the experts advice and keep your tires properly inflated year-round.

....what he said!!!

 

[J_C]

You're right that TireRack has no vested interest in whether or not its customers crash and die... but state departments of transportation do.
From the first page on google for "lower tire pressure for winter":

1) No way. The most inept people on the planet end up at government jobs writing short blurbs. Stating some group has vested interest is no proof of technical correctness. All they are doing is looking at the fact that if tires are underinflated excessively that it can contribute to accidents. They have no data at all about what tire pressure the majority of people had when they got stuck in snow or slid on ice. I have never stated that significantly underinflated tires are safe, but most certainly slightly less inflated tires (than sticker values) are safer on ice and snow.

2) I already addressed this with my statement about people playing baby sitter, lying about traction then proceeding to warn about what happens if you let pressure drop too far.

Reducing air pressure will not give you more traction and your tires could become seriously underinflated, affecting steering. Keep in mind that every time the outside temperature drops 10 degrees, the tire air pressure goes down about one pound per square inch. Remember too that underinflated tires are the major cause of tire failure.

In other words, all they really care about is trying to keep people from not underinflating their tires excessively. They don't have data about traction from a slightly lower tire pressure, so basically the person who wrote that is incompetent.

A number of other webpages support that you should keep your tires properly inflated for on-road driving. Sorry about your old notions about winter-tire pressure, but they're incorrect. The best thing to do is follow the experts advice and keep your tires properly inflated year-round.

"Properly inflated" does not mean you have to inflate all the way to the sticker. Do you even know what that sticker is for? That's an inflation rate sufficient to handle the GVWR with same size and type OEM tires, not even optional for perfect weather, perfect roads, when under the GVWR.

I always run my tires a few PSI lower in winter and the sky has not fallen. I get sufficient mileage, even wear over their lifetime, no blowouts, nothing but better traction.

In fact most people do, it is normal for cold tire pressure to drop and then people inflate their tires with compressor heated air then take a hot air reading before tire pressure settles. Fortunately, most people also don't load their vehicle to the GVWR often, if ever.

I'm not going to come to your house and check your tire pressure so fortunately we have no problem disagreeing. I'll continue to do what works well for me and continue to give the same advice and I expect you'll do the same.

 

[jmr061]

This has gone way off topic. Learn to agree to disagree and lets drop it and get back on topic. People can do their own research on the topic and come to their own conclusion.

 

[amd2800barton]

JC - can you cite a study or expert who would disagree with the two sources I posted (TireRack and a New England State DOT)? I genuinely would like to have a read and see in what conditions and what the circumstances are that they recommend lowering tire pressure to increase traction (and by how much). Based on everything I've read its dangerous to imply that people should lower their tire pressures in winter, and your only source seems to be that you've always done it that way.

Also, relax, no one is attacking you or trying to play nanny state. I'd just hate for someone to get in an accident because some guy on the internet said it was a good idea to run their tires low in winter, when the experts all disagree.

 

[J_C]

^ It's not hard to find authorities on the topic which are people who actually drive on snow rather than people who prop themselves up with theory they don't understand. All the experts don't agree. The true experts are the ones who have tried it both ways and have the sense not to go to extremes of low pressure enough that it would be dangerous.

Show me any supposed expert who even briefly discusses the fact that the correct tire pressure is not based on your car pressure sticker but rather your actual vehicle gross weight when discussing a pressure for snow traction.

If they don't include that in their discussion then I refer to myself as more of an expert, or do you disagree that the amount of weight a vehicle places on a tire changes the contact patch and that as weight increases a higher pressure is needed, and as weight decreases a lower pressure is more optimal?

No you haven't actually read evidence that it's dangerous to (vaguely) lower tire pressure, only that it's dangerous to lower it (to an implied) excessive amount. It's like some expert telling you "never drink a beer" because drinking can be dangerous, or never drive on the road at all because driving can be dangerous.

Without going into detailed specifics, it's just what someone thought they should write as a babysitter to the general public because there are more details than they are willing to write about in a few short sentences, or more than they feel the average driver too young to have snow experience would be able to figure out on their own.

Babysitting like this ruins many areas of life. Take the new EPA low emissions gas cans for example. Instead of going into specifics of how to minimize gas spillage and vapor loss, give the public that info, we now have valves on cans that cause experienced users to spill more gas and lose more vapors than ever before.

Okay, snow traction was drifting a little off topic (pardon the pun) but now with gas cans I'm done with the topic, am just going to have to leave the topic living dangerously but getting into fewer accidents and getting stuck less often. Note that I haven't been stuck in snow or in any kind of accident (not even the other guy's fault, no tire blowouts, nothing) in over 20 years. Oops, I almost dived back into the topic. Adios! [/unsubscribed]

 

[HughCares]

^ It's not hard to find authorities on the topic which are people who actually drive on snow rather than people who prop themselves up with theory they don't understand. All the experts don't agree. The true experts are the ones who have tried it both ways and have the sense not to go to extremes of low pressure enough that it would be dangerous.

Show me any supposed expert who even briefly discusses the fact that the correct tire pressure is not based on your car pressure sticker but rather your actual vehicle gross weight when discussing a pressure for snow traction.

If they don't include that in their discussion then I refer to myself as more of an expert, or do you disagree that the amount of weight a vehicle places on a tire changes the contact patch and that as weight increases a higher pressure is needed, and as weight decreases a lower pressure is more optimal?

No you haven't actually read evidence that it's dangerous to (vaguely) lower tire pressure, only that it's dangerous to lower it (to an implied) excessive amount. It's like some expert telling you "never drink a beer" because drinking can be dangerous, or never drive on the road at all because driving can be dangerous.

Without going into detailed specifics, it's just what someone thought they should write as a babysitter to the general public because there are more details than they are willing to write about in a few short sentences, or more than they feel the average driver too young to have snow experience would be able to figure out on their own.

Babysitting like this ruins many areas of life. Take the new EPA low emissions gas cans for example. Instead of going into specifics of how to minimize gas spillage and vapor loss, give the public that info, we now have valves on cans that cause experienced users to spill more gas and lose more vapors than ever before.

Okay, snow traction was drifting a little off topic (pardon the pun) but now with gas cans I'm done with the topic, am just going to have to leave the topic living dangerously but getting into fewer accidents and getting stuck less often. Note that I haven't been stuck in snow or in any kind of accident (not even the other guy's fault, no tire blowouts, nothing) in over 20 years. Oops, I almost dived back into the topic. Adios! [/unsubscribed]

Man...I feel sorry for your wife........

 

[J_C]

Man...I feel sorry for your wife........

Trolling isn't an admirable personality trait...

 

[HughCares]

Trolling isn't an admirable personality trait...

Peter....time to censor J_C now.......my feelings just got hurt!

 

[wifes2011xlt]

Best rule of thumb is to always check your tire pressures when they are cold and keep them at the recommended psi as indicated on your vehicle's sticker governing inflation, regardless of the season.

Peter

^^^This…plus, I hate having that darn tire pressure sensor go off let alone leave it unattended for an entire winter.

 

[tmg19103]

For me in the winter, I just keep the tires at recommended psi - which generally means I have to add about 3 lost psi due to what is lost in the cold weather.

As for what is right or wrong, be careful of sources. The Ex owners manual says not to deflate tires in sand. Deflating tires for soft sand is exactly what you are supposed to do - and I learned that from those who drove beaches before I first did so - though I Google would no doubt confirm.

My guess is Ford does not want you deflating because you may then drive off the beach and drive on pavement with low pressure tires, get in an accident or have a blowout and blame/sue Ford - so be careful of agendas.

 

[amd2800barton]

Trolling isn't an admirable personality trait...

Says the guy whining about everyone trying to babysit him, and complaining about dat guvmint. Why is it that when a fairly reputable source makes a claim that disagrees with someones long held belief, which has no basis in evidence, all they do is dig in deeper because they have a good feeling? Is our science education really so bad that people think this is okay?

J_C - please provide sources, or cite studies showing that under inflating tires would be a safe way to improve winter driving. I genuinely want to be safer, and welcome information that would disprove my previously held beliefs because it would make me a safer driver. I've cited TireRack and a Dept of Transportation. Numerous other sources agree, but I didn't see any that support your position.