K&N intake tube worth it, or more snake oil?

[FordRacing28]

Okay guys, I have a K&N cone filter on my 2000 XLS with 148k on the clock. I read the wildly entertaining AND informative "Cold air intake advice" thread. This question differs from most of the discussion in that thread. I just wanted to know if you guys feel like it's worth the $40 to buy the intake tube and install it. I have the rest of the kit necessary as I got a great deal on an SOHC kit even though I have the OHV. I knew the intake tubes were different so.....

Is it worth the $40 to get the intake tube? Or am I only buying snake oil by doing so?

This site has been beyond informative and I love it! Yes, I will be an elite explorer very soon!

 

[jay 2000]

Cant tell you bout that snake oil, but you are on the money about those posts! I got out of it FAST! Interesting opinions at best.

 

[1996BLKBauer]

I feel that the Stock box is pretty effciant, granted you may get better flow, I doubt it would be much better then stock. I am currently running a K&N cone filter as a replacement for my stock cone Filter, didn't really notice any power improvements, but MPGs went up about .5-1.0 per mile, If you search this subject on the internet you will get every imaginable answer, but to be honest in most cases the stock intake is good enough for stock applications, if it was truly as bad as some say, then why do they pay anybody to design the darn things in the first place.

 

[OffTrac]

You're an engineer. Do you want to work for Ford or K&N, assuming pay is equal. I bet Ford gets the pick of the litter.

 

[LONO100]

The only thing that you are sure to get is a different sound coming from your motor. You will definitely notice the grumble a kn cone intake will have over the stock box. After that all bets are off. I run a KN and I plan on swapping the actual filter with an amsoil cone I've heard some positive things about that type of set up in terms of mpg and even power.

 

[FIND]

Snake oil

Why do people think that car manufacturers would either:

A: Deliberately put some sort of bottleneck into their intake system when they could put a better flowing filter/airbox and get a couple extra horsepower or MPG in something as competitive as the car market?

B: Not be able to afford to employ the kind of talent it takes to engineer good intake systems while companies that don't spend even 1/1000th of what car manufacturers do on R&D can?

 

[the draggin]

Snake oil

As with all areas regarding automotive engineering we tend to forget EPA regulations. The factory has to comply with rules and regs that we outside folks can avoid. Thay have noise standards fuel standards long term things that we never hear about. That being said there are some things that are worth doing to improve your vehicles mileage and performance, but like everything else there is a point where you spend more and get less or even lose ground. It is a trial and error game and the best we can do is to have an open discussion about all the mods people do and take the best and apply them to our situation. These type of forums can help the manufacturers see what is possible outside the corporate box and advance their development process.

 

[X~FACTOR]

As with all areas regarding automotive engineering we tend to forget EPA regulations. The factory has to comply with rules and regs that we outside folks can avoid. Thay have noise standards fuel standards long term things that we never hear about. That being said there are some things that are worth doing to improve your vehicles mileage and performance, but like everything else there is a point where you spend more and get less or even lose ground. It is a trial and error game and the best we can do is to have an open discussion about all the mods people do and take the best and apply them to our situation. These type of forums can help the manufacturers see what is possible outside the corporate box and advance their development process.

Truth.

 

[Maniak]

Personally, I only used the K&N filter because I could wash it. Of course, now there are more washable filters...

Over time though, those filters do seem to wear out so I switched to Wix air filters which are usually consdiered restrictive but they filter more than most filters.

Since we live on a dirt road I change the filters about every oil change (8k miles which is just over 2 months) and buy them by the case just like I do oil filters.

~Mark

 

[Blue91Ex]

Snake oil

Why do people think that car manufacturers would either:

A: Deliberately put some sort of bottleneck into their intake system when they could put a better flowing filter/airbox and get a couple extra horsepower or MPG in something as competitive as the car market?

To save money by using cheaper simpler parts, like the very common, easily manufactured, basic flat air filter?

 

[FIND]

As with all areas regarding automotive engineering we tend to forget EPA regulations. The factory has to comply with rules and regs that we outside folks can avoid. Thay have noise standards fuel standards long term things that we never hear about. That being said there are some things that are worth doing to improve your vehicles mileage and performance, but like everything else there is a point where you spend more and get less or even lose ground. It is a trial and error game and the best we can do is to have an open discussion about all the mods people do and take the best and apply them to our situation. These type of forums can help the manufacturers see what is possible outside the corporate box and advance their development process.

The type of filter you use does not affect your emissions. Also, trust me when I say this, Ford knows how to make their cars make more power or get better fuel economy. If an air filter was the answer, it would have been in there a long time ago. People have been buying these types of things for decades now. Sure, things like tube headers are done in aftermarket because they add to the noise a vehicle makes, and manufacturers want to avoid that kind of thing. But... as far as your intake goes? Your throttle body is the biggest restriction in your intake system, because that is what it is there to do, to function as a restriction. Everything else in your intake will pretty much support your engine without any problems, unless you modify your engine substantially.

To save money by using cheaper simpler parts, like the very common, easily manufactured, basic flat air filter?

Round or cone type air filters are no more expensive to produce, and they could just increase the size of the filter element if they wanted to allow more air through. In fact, I hate to break it to you, but those oiled gauze or foam filters are not much more to make than the paper ones, they just cost more because you are paying for names like K&N.

Also, Ford puts turbochargers, direct injection, complicated ignition systems, aerodynamic bits and pieces and many other things on their cars to give them more performance, fuel economy or "fun". Do you really think the few bucks it would take them to switch filters is what is holding them back from cars having better fuel economy or more power?




Do we seriously need to have this conversation every month on here?

 

[Greg_DonWindsor]

Snake oil

Why do people think that car manufacturers would either:

A: Deliberately put some sort of bottleneck into their intake system when they could put a better flowing filter/airbox and get a couple extra horsepower or MPG in something as competitive as the car market?

B: Not be able to afford to employ the kind of talent it takes to engineer good intake systems while companies that don't spend even 1/1000th of what car manufacturers do on R&D can?

A: They don't deliberately put it a bottleneck, stock parts are engineered to sound good (read: quiet) to the average, non-performance oriented customer. Your average explorer customer bought this back in the day as a glorified grocery cart, and probably wants to be able to hear their kids, not their engine, as they go about their day to day.

B: Vehicle engineers have to engineer ALL parts, I'd rather buy my intake from an INTAKE company, that spends R&D money solely on engineering better flowing, better performing intake systems, and that's it. Along this line of thinking, I'd also buy my brakes from a brake company, etc.

 

[FIND]

A: They don't deliberately put it a bottleneck, stock parts are engineered to sound good (read: quiet) to the average, non-performance oriented customer. Your average explorer customer bought this back in the day as a glorified grocery cart, and probably wants to be able to hear their kids, not their engine, as they go about their day to day.

B: Vehicle engineers have to engineer ALL parts, I'd rather buy my intake from an INTAKE company, that spends R&D money solely on engineering better flowing, better performing intake systems, and that's it. Along this line of thinking, I'd also buy my brakes from a brake company, etc.

Well good luck with that. According to the dyno, those intakes don't do piss for our trucks, or most other cars on the road.

Developing an intake at Ford? Several thousand hours and many man hours. Developing an intake at "intake companies"? The cost of pipe and enough time to measure and make it fit.

But hey, waste your money on crap if it makes you feel better.

 

[QueenCitySleeper]

You will see zero gain on a stock engine. It would be beneficial if you were FI.

I recently installed a big intake tube on my cammed engine and saw zero change at part and wot on my wideband indicating that I was still operating within the limits of the factory intake tube. The factory tube is a nice piece. It is highly heat resistant and has very interesting geometry. The design is deliberate and with absolute flow dynamic purpose. Mainly to create laminar flow for the MAF and TB. Ford may have contracted out the intake design or they may have designed it in house. Either way the entire intake system was engineered for efficiency and emissions just like the rest of the engine.

People claiming .5-1.5 mpg increases are not being realistic. That small of a change would require thousands of miles of testing at different altitudes, humidity, temperature, fuel grades, etc etc etc. In a lab engineers and technicians test for all reasonable conditions and combinations of those conditions. They use that data to design a part.

 

[Greg_DonWindsor]

Find, completely untrue. I also run a Superchips cortex tuner, which has the ability to test 0-60 runs, among numerous other engine parameters. With the 91 octane tune installed, testing at the same location with all other variables controlled, I achieved an average of 0.6s faster 0-60mph times once I installed the K&N kit with a 75mm MAF sensor. My best 0-60 with the kit installed was 7.89 seconds.

If you have dyno results, please feel free to post them, my real world scientific testing proved otherwise. It was the furthest thing from a "waste" of money, as you so eloquently put it.

On average, my hwy fuel economy saw increases as well, though it is difficult to attribute the amount to which this is based upon the aftermarket intake, and is more than likely a synergistic effect of all my other mods as well.

 

[FIND]

FFS, put up or shut up. You think it works for doing anything other than making your wallet lighter, post some proof. Until then, stop arguing with people who know how cars actually work.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Different goals

. . . Also, trust me when I say this, Ford knows how to make their cars make more power or get better fuel economy. If an air filter was the answer, it would have been in there a long time ago. . .
Round or cone type air filters are no more expensive to produce, and they could just increase the size of the filter element if they wanted to allow more air through. . . Also, Ford puts turbochargers, direct injection, complicated ignition systems, aerodynamic bits and pieces and many other things on their cars to give them more performance, fuel economy or "fun". Do you really think the few bucks it would take them to switch filters is what is holding them back from cars having better fuel economy or more power? . .

I agree that Ford knows how to increase max performance but that may not be the primary goal for production vehicles. Increasing WOT performance increases noise, decreases fuel economy, and reduces reliability. According to dyno testing I gained a significant increase in max rwtq and rwhp by simply decreasing the slack in the throttle cable so the throttle plate was full open when the accelerator was "floored". I was disappointed that Ford chose not to provide an adjustment in the slack unlike most other vehicles I've owned. Dyno testing also revealed a measurable WOT performance increase in merely swapping from the stock air filter to an Akimoto Racing cone filter. However, I'm confident that reduced flow restriction was achieved by sacrificing filtering effectiveness.

I question the decision to use metal tubing for a main intake. The engine compartment is usually hotter than ambient and metal conducts (absorbs) heat better than silicone or some other insulated material. However, the heat transferred to the intake air may be minimal.

 

[bats]

My vote is on snake oil. After waiting two months for an intake from Explorer Express I was incredibly disappointed. After several thousand miles on my 01 SOHC Sport the only noticeable difference was engine sound. I did also notice a feeling of buyer's remorse.

'Custom cold air intakes' seems like a good business to get into.

 

[Blue91Ex]

Find, it was just a thought, you really dont need to get so pissy about it, its a discussion thread, we were discussing it. obviously you do pay more premium for a name brand like K&N, but i asume that ford still may buy parts from other companies for some things, and doesnt manufacture every single part that goes into their vehicles, as many vehicle companies use a VERY similar type of air filter, maybe they contracted a company to mass produce the same thing for them, instead of hiring K&N or some other big brand name to do it. you make valid points, i was just expressing the possibility. just because you know about how vehicles work doesnt mean everyone else is a complete moron in comparison.

 

[Greg_DonWindsor]

This guy Find is just mad he can't afford one. I do know how engines and vehicles work, and have seen numerous real world benefits from all the mods I've done. I'd be happy to post proof when I get back to the city, on a 2 week shift in the oil patch right now. There is a good reason an aftermarket intake is near the top of most people's to-do list for their build projects, if you don't feel the same way it's simple, don't buy one, and enjoy having your Explorer try to take deep breaths with it's teeth clenched!