Lateral play in CV axle...your opinion please

[slowdog]

I have a 2000 EX AWD 5.0 with 90000 miles.

Like many folk, I have a rumbling, grinding noise coming from somewhere in the front driveline. I have read many posts on this forum concerning the symptoms, noises and vibrations related to problems with CV joints, ball joints, hubs, front drive axles, differentials and transfer cases. Since it is difficult to describe a noise or relate to what someone else hears, I decided to just start checking everything...

First, I noticed that it appears that my tires (stock size) have rubbed against the upper ball joints enough to keep the metal on the balljoint clean. So I jacked the truck up and used a long bar under the wheel to check for play in the lower ball joints. There was about 1/8 inch of vertical play when I lifted the wheel up and down....so I decided to replace them....although I am not sure that ball joints could cause the noise I am hearing since the noise occurs while driving straight, while turning and when under a load...forward or reverse...and the tires are not touching anything when the truck is still, even when the wheels are turned stop to stop...

While under the truck I also felt of the CV joints. The right one had some lateral play in the outer joint (by "lateral" I mean perpendicular to the shaft or side to side). When I removed the CV Axle I confirmed that it has lateral play, enough to feel it bump from side to side. I removed the boot and the grease looks good and I do not see any metal filings or any signs of wear... Should there be any such play in a CV joint?? Will a CV just wear out without leaving any metal filings?

One last question....the only local parts store with a CV in stock is O'Reillys, who sell Master Pro CV axles (their brand I guess)...has anyone had problems with those parts?

Thanks for the help!!

 

[my pos mounty]

Some (a little) lateral movement in the CV is not unusal. It needs some so that it allows you to turn the truck. The movement would occur in the joints, not the entire axle. I wouldn't think you would find metal shavings in the CV joint unless it had a catastrophic failure. The grease would be black and the ballbearings in the cage would show signs of wear (possible pitting/scarring) in a bad joint however.
What I would look at is the 1/8th inch movement you discovered in the front end. Was it the balljoint or is it the bearing that is giving the movement? Also, tires should never contact the balljoint, ever. Something isn't right there somewhere.

You may already be aware of this, but always replace the tires as a set of 4 (5 with spare) because a slight difference (as small as 1/8th inch can cause issues) in the circumferance of the tires (even just 1 of them) can cause the noise you describe, but also can cause premature wear/failure of just about every component in the drivetrain. To explain this further, say you have 1/4 inch difference in one tire on the front. That difference has to be made up somewhere with every roatation that the tire makes. That would mostly occur in the front differential, creating excessive heat in the bearings and wear surfaces. The pressures would be transmitted up thru the front driveshaft (creating excessive wear in the driveshaft joints) to the transfercase where the viscous coupler would have to absorb it. This would cause the coupling to "slip" also causing heat to be generated in the transfercase, that heat causing excessive wear...and on down the line thru every component. Not trying to scare you, I would like to stop others from suffering the same fate that my driveline did when my wife took the truck to New York. She got a flat and didn't want to "worry me" and had her Uncle change the tire with one that was off an Explorer 2WD. I have P265/75/R16's, Uncle put on a 245/70/R15. She did not get very far and I have been replacing one driveline part after another ever since, no more front diff, replaced rear axle, both wheel hubs, etc etc etc.

 

[slowdog]

Thanks for the reply! After I removed the CV axles, I had a mechanic look at it. In his opinion it was ok. I went to the parts store which had ordered and received the new one so that I could compare my CV with a new one. The new CV axle had almost as much of the same "lateral play". The guy at the parts store agreed that my CV axle appears to be ok.

Therefore, I am replacing the lower balljoints. I will then check the upper balljoints (if I can figure out how) and take another look at the hubs.

When we jacked the truck up and then lifted the wheel/tire vertically with a steel bar the only part that I could find that seemed to show wear were the lower balljoints (and the lateral play in that right CV). The hubs did not seem to move at all. Also, the one that I now have off of the vehicle does not "feel" like it has a bad bearing (I have not yet removed the left one). The mechanic told me that a problem in the hubs may not show itself without the weight of the vehicle on it. Therefore, I have to ask, is there a reliable test for the hubs, or do I just have to replace parts until I hit on the correct fault??

I am both concerned and confused over the apparent tire rubbing against the upper balljoint, what could cause that... other than the lower balljoint? It would seem to me that a hub so worn that it would allow the wheel to lean that much would be apparent. When I turn the wheels they never hit the upper balljoint while the truck is static. Could the tires lean that much more when the truck is moving?? What should I be looking for?

I am also going to check the fluid level in the transfer case as I read on one post that if the oil is low it can cause noises similar to the one I am hearing. What is your opinion of that?

I purchased all four tires together and have kept the tires rotated, although the front tires have always worn more on the inner part of the tread....I know that the new balljoints will help that, but this vehicle was purchased when it had 33K miles on it and even though the alignment was checked it has always worn the tires unevenly....could that be a clue as to what my problem is, or do all EX's wear tires in that manner?? My alignment shop just told me that all Explorers do that...is that true?

Thanks again for your help!! Any further help is certainly appreciated!!
Slowdog

 

[my pos mounty]

When we jacked the truck up and then lifted the wheel/tire vertically with a steel bar the only part that I could find that seemed to show wear were the lower balljoints (and the lateral play in that right CV). The hubs did not seem to move at all. Also, the one that I now have off of the vehicle does not "feel" like it has a bad bearing (I have not yet removed the left one). The mechanic told me that a problem in the hubs may not show itself without the weight of the vehicle on it. Therefore, I have to ask, is there a reliable test for the hubs, or do I just have to replace parts until I hit on the correct fault?

Your mechanic is correct, sometimes the weight of the vehicle needs to be on the bearing for it to make noises. With it off the truck, you might be able to feel something going on...but not always, like if you caught it before it got real bad.
Typically the noise generated by a bad wheel bearing/hub will get worse when turning in one direction or another (again, not always but most times). I once had a passenger side bearing go on me that only had the noise when going straight, and was quiet when cornering either direction.

I am both concerned and confused over the apparent tire rubbing against the upper balljoint, what could cause that... other than the lower balljoint? It would seem to me that a hub so worn that it would allow the wheel to lean that much would be apparent. When I turn the wheels they never hit the upper balljoint while the truck is static. Could the tires lean that much more when the truck is moving?? What should I be looking for?

I am also confused over the tire being able to rub on the upper balljoint. Maybe the upper is bad as well as the lower? If you have the CV out, how "floppy" is the upper balljoint?
The weight of the truck could be making a harsher lean angle than is possible without the centrifical force of cornering, but thats alot to be able to contact the upper control arm. Is that happening on both sides?

I am also going to check the fluid level in the transfer case as I read on one post that if the oil is low it can cause noises similar to the one I am hearing. What is your opinion of that?

Do it. While your at it, check the front and rear diff fluid levels.

I purchased all four tires together and have kept the tires rotated, although the front tires have always worn more on the inner part of the tread....I know that the new balljoints will help that, but this vehicle was purchased when it had 33K miles on it and even though the alignment was checked it has always worn the tires unevenly....could that be a clue as to what my problem is, or do all EX's wear tires in that manner?? My alignment shop just told me that all Explorers do that...is that true?

Tires wearing on the inner part of the tread indicates that the front end is out of alignment. If your alignment shop says its normal, find a new alignment shop.