My '92 Explorer Is Heating Up - Please Help!

[Gabriels Rage]

Wow! Thanks a lot Justin and Sewerat!
I've been a little busy so I have not had the time to make it on here... However, I did do an oil change (obviously put in a new oil filter also). That stuff was so black, it was bad. Thankfully though, there was no water or rust. Just lovely old oil. I also tested the radiator fluid and it came up with two balls, meaning that it was at +5. Woopie, probably does not help anything but I thought I would check anyways.

The next morning I took it for a drive around the block to see if it made any difference. Haha, nope... I took it up a hill this time and it started heating so rapidly it was almost frightening. By the time we got around the corner and made it to the top of the hill I threw it in neutral and coast up until I made it to my coldesac. Parked it and let it run for a minute, as the gauge was starting to drop slowly. In the mean time I stepped outside and it smelt a little bad and then I see radiator fluid pouring out. Killed it, then popped the hood and let it cool well I watched it flow out the radiator cap.
Tonight I finally made it to the parts store to pick up a new one (just a 13 lbs). Tomorrow morning I'm hoping to put that on and take off the belt and check the fan clutch and the water pump.
I'm thinking it might be the fan (along with the cap), as it would make sense to me that it is slipping and can't cool the engine fast enough as it is parked.

I'll check tomorrow hopefully, and probably fire it up again. If it starts to get hot still even with the new cap, then I'll just kill it and wait until Wednesday (or later depending on this heat wave) when I'll have more time to actually drain it and try the water cleaning thing.
Another thing I noticed, is even though its a new radiator it has several bent fins (rays, whatever you want to call them) along with smashed (huge) bugs in them... I think if I drain all that fluid out, then I might as well take it off and clean it and straighten it...
I'll try to update tomorrow to let you all know what happens with the new cap.

Oh, and one other thing I forgot to mention. The truck has 250 thousand miles on it, and most of the original parts.

Thanks again!
~Gabe :roll:

 

[Sewerat]

The next morning I took it for a drive around the block to see if it made any difference. Haha, nope... I took it up a hill this time and it started heating so rapidly it was almost frightening. ~Gabe

If it is heating up that fast... either your pump is dead or you have a serious blockage somewhere in the cooling system... prolly the radiator.

let us know what you find.

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Yesterday I ran it for a few minutes again (after I replaced the cap). It did the same thing, but I payed real close attention this time. I noticed it had a pattern of going two steps up, one step back. It just kept doing that. Once it got past the 'L' in NORMAL, I noticed it started dripping a little anti-freeze. It was dripping out the upper hose where it connected to the thermostat housing. Sooooo, yeah. Fun stuff.
Next step for me to try is to drain all the coolant and flush out the system, along with taking the radiator off and cleaning/straightening it... Well I'm at it I'll take off the belt and check the fan clutch and water pump.

If it is heating up that fast... either your pump is dead or you have a serious blockage somewhere in the cooling system... prolly the radiator.

let us know what you find.

Thanks again for the advice. I'll let you guys know what I find.
Too hot this week to try, but hopefully next week I will.
~Gabe

 

[fixxxer]

With it heating up that fast, yet the radiator is topped off, new t-stat and with the way you described coolant rushing out when you ran it with the cap off, I'm placing my bets on the cooling fan clutch being bad. Please keep us updated!

 

[Gabriels Rage]

With it heating up that fast, yet the radiator is topped off, new t-stat and with the way you described coolant rushing out when you ran it with the cap off, I'm placing my bets on the cooling fan clutch being bad. Please keep us updated!

I'm thinking the same thing...
I will definitely update when I find out more.

Thanks for the reply!
~Gabe

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Found It!?!

And we were right. Its the fan clutch... The belt also seemed to have some cracking going on, so that probably did not help. I finally found this stuff out just a couple hours ago. Getting that belt off was a pain (first time I've taken a belt off)! I had to have my girlfriend take it off well I held the pulley in place.

All of the pulleys spun freely, other then the crankshaft. Is it suppose to be this way? I have AC also...
Good news is that the battery still has about 8 volts. So it should be enough to start it next time without jumping it. With any luck I'll be able to get the part next week and work on installing it. Could anyone tell me how to replace the fan clutch, or show me a website/thread that tells how to? Its a V6 4.0L Automatic XLT if that makes any difference...

Thanks for all the help guys!
~Gabe

 

[ThePhoenix]

your GF helped? she is a keeper!

 

[Gabriels Rage]

your GF helped? she is a keeper!

Haha, yes she is! She loves working on vehicles possibly more then I do... She is great.

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Hey guys, I could seriously use some help here... At this point I'm thinking its the fan clutch, but I don't see really anyone here posting about that. And if it is the fan clutch, how would I know (without it running)???

What should I do now...? I seriously want this thing working. Sounds like a back flush and cleaning the radiator, ect. maybe..?

 

[Gabriels Rage]

I'm about to go flush the system this morning with putting a hose into the heater core hoses. I got a system all set up that should really make this easy.
The only problem that I'm having is when I go to turn it over, what hose do I want to be putting water into??? This is very important to know, but I can't seem to find the answer! Can someone please tell me which one it is?
In the process of this, I took off the heater core off and its brand new and I flushed it but it ran out just fine. That is not the problem.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Maniak]

Normal Heater hose Water flow is from the head to the heater control valve/heater core back to the water pump.

~Mark

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Normal Heater hose Water flow is from the head to the heater control valve/heater core back to the water pump.

~Mark

Thats great! Thank you so much for the quick response!
~Gabe

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Water Water Everywhere...

... But not a drop to drink (read the title of this post)!
We did flushing both directions, collected all the Coolant. It was pretty greenish brown, so it seems as though there was some rust in the block. After that got all flushed, the water was clear and it just had small little flakes of rust (it looked like fish food lol).
Turned it over with the water running full blast, did some revving. It ran really smooth. It sounded pretty good after the first minute, made me happy. When we revved it, the water flow did not change... So according to you guys, that means the water pump is dead. Is this right??? If so that really sucks... The good news is that there are no leaks! The temp gauge did not even budge during the hole time we had it running, and that was a little over eight minutes. It still fires right up, so thats a good thing. I didn't have to jump start (yay).
Its hard for me to tell if the fan clutch is dead... Since it spins when I put my hand on it (without the belt on it), does that mean it needs to be replace? I've not heard what it sounds like before it started this overheating problem, I don't know how it should sound...
If the water pump needs to be replaced, should I go ahead and replace the fan clutch (and vice versa)?
I've noticed this is seriously a rust bucket at the front end... Looks to me like the coolant has overflowed multiple times, making it rust like crazy.
I think since I've got all the fluid out, I'll go ahead and take off the radiator and clean that out just to help. Its got a lot of ugly bugs crushed in it, lol!

So I've narrowed it down to either the water pump or the fan clutch. Possibly even both... Now I just need some opinions from all of you as to what I should do next. I would greatly appreciate it!

~Gabe

 

[Maniak]

You need the belt on the water pump to test the fan clutch. If the fan clutch is good it won't let the fan spin very far at all when the water pump pulley is held still (with the belt).

the only way I've ever checked a water pump is to just disconnect the hose going to the heater core, start it up and see if it shoots the water a good 2 feet.. If it does, its still working.. if not, its dead.

BTW, fan clutches to wear out over time. . I've "read" they loose about 10% of spin speed per year..


~Mark

 

[Gabriels Rage]

You need the belt on the water pump to test the fan clutch. If the fan clutch is good it won't let the fan spin very far at all when the water pump pulley is held still (with the belt).

the only way I've ever checked a water pump is to just disconnect the hose going to the heater core, start it up and see if it shoots the water a good 2 feet.. If it does, its still working.. if not, its dead.

BTW, fan clutches to wear out over time. . I've "read" they loose about 10% of spin speed per year..


~Mark

Thanks Mark!
Ahh... I took the belt off. Haha... So if I go out there and try to spin it with the belt on it (like it is) and the fan clutch won't budge that means its still good? That makes perfect sense... Not sure about the 10% thing though, that would mean mine is negative 70% lol! Its an interesting idea though... Maybe it loses 10% every year after ten years?

The water pump I'm a little confused on still... I don't see any leakage out of the "weeping hole" or anything, and its solid on there. When I ran it, the water was flowing out of there rather fast, but the hose was also at its fullest power, so I'm not really sure...... The interesting thing is back when I ran it without the cap on, I could see the water moving before it started to build up higher and then sloshing out like crazy. Maybe that was due to it boiling? Or could the water pump have done this??? Either way, something is messed up and its not clogged or a leak. Is there anyone in my local area on here that would be interested in checking it out? Its just really strange that it ran almost perfect with the hose shoved in it...

I just thought of something; when I did this flushing, does it go through the radiator also??? If not, then maybe its clogged! Could that really be the case?
Its gotta be something with the fan or water pump I think... I don't see how a few smashed bugs and stuff could really make it get hot like that..

Seriously confused...
~Gabe

 

[Gabriels Rage]

So the fan clutch did not spin this time with the belt on. I could not even get it to move at all... The fan however did spin? That I thought was little strange... It was firm, but I had no problem moving it with one finger. So what does this mean? If I understand correctly, its fine. But I don't know if I do understand it...

 

[doonze]

Yes that's normal, sorry I've haven't posted up Gabe, I've been doing some stuff in the stock fourm and don't get over here often.

Ok, first, I don't think the clutch spins unless the pulley spins, so normal. You should be able to move the fan with your finger, normal also. I think the only test really is to get it hot "run if for a bit" shut it down and try to spin the fan by hand. If it moves more then about 1-2" after you stop spining it it's bad.

I've also heard you can try and "catch" the fan "with big ass leather gloves on" and if you can stop the blades with your hand then the clutch is bad....I'm not doing that test....I did pass the first test though on mine.

Also, I have a write up in my sig about flushing! Just got it done a few days ago, check that out too!

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Thanks Justin.
So I guess that pretty much rules out the fan, huh? I really would not want to try and catch it... And I don't really see how it being "hot" would make it spin any different, but I guess its worth a shot.

I did run it for real again this afternoon with just water in it. This was the first time since I did the flushing (though I had it running, the hose was also running that time). It lasted ten minutes before I had to kill it. At 6 minutes it started going up rather fast...
One interesting thing to note is that the thermostat you could hear it like kick in at about the "M" in NORMAL. Once it gets there, you can hear it sounds like the water pump is working like crazy, and as you watch the gauge continue to climb, you'll see it jerk back and forth as it heats up... That kind of makes me think it might be the water pump.

I still can't figure this out though... If its not the fan, even though it would make since, but I don't see it really being that due to the testing. Then I'm going to guess its the water pump. However, I'm still leaving the possibility that it could be the catalytic converter. I know its strange, but I have read about that.

I'm hopefully gonna have someone come by next week who knows a bit about over heating issues, so with any luck he'll be able to tell me what is going on with it...

Thanks for the help guys!
~Gabe

 

[doonze]

I may have a bit more info on this fan issue now. Check out this thread...

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252362

Just food for thought, the two test I told you about are still the only ones I've found so far. But I'm thinking those might just be "rules of thumb" and might not be 100%.

Now, on the same token..... Mine at it's worse wasn't anything close to what you have been seeing. I could understand if the fan just sat still. But I can't imagine the fan just being "so so" would cause the issues like your seeing. If it's spinning and seems to be moving air then I would think it would keep it cool enough as long as it wasn't super hot out, AC on, or a load on it. Now if the fan is bad and you have OTHER issues...then yeah. And it might be all the above.

I think my fan is bad after reading that thread I linked to above. I never hear my fan at all... ever. But I can keep below R now in 100* weather with the A/C on.... It still hits M if I sit in a drive through for 10 mins with A/C on in 100* sun, but other wise never get's more then 1/2 through R. And that day it hit M, once I started moving dropped right to O in 1/2 a mile, so no worries really. I just think my fan is toast. It also rises on hills (to low R)....also a sign of a bad fan.

I'm not saying your fan isn't bad, I just don't think it's the only/biggest issue IMHO. It does move air right? I mean it spins and you can tell air is moving?

I may be wrong, however.... wonder if you could set up a house fan in front of the radiator and see if it still runs hot... course would have to be one heck of a house fan....hmmmmm... but the theory is sound. I don't know if it would prove anything in practice.

You could go all redneck and goto Wal-mart, buy yourself a box fan (baby blue is best) tape it on the front of your truck with duct tape, and get yourself a power inverter to run it! Yeah!! DIY electric fans for the win!!!

I think I just found this years Christmas Card picture!!! I almost want to try it and see if it works!!! LOL

Ok, well, my latest thought on your issues...

 

[Maniak]

The sure fire way to know if its the fan is to see what it does at speed. If the temp stays low at 45mph+ (light throttle), then its most likely the fan. If it still over heats then we are chasing the wrong things since at 45mph you have plenty of air going through it.

BTW. The viscous fluid in the fan clutch gets thicker with heat, so it "slips" less when hot. Thats how it spins faster when warm..

Another thing worth doing. .Grab a < $20 infared temp sensor from Harbor Freight and measure the temp of things. That may helps isolate what is going on.

I'd check the temp of the following things.
Heater hose coming out of the head (it bypasses the thermostat)
Upper radiator hose (it should be "coolish" until the thermostat open)
Upper and lower radiator hose right at the radiator (lower hose should be cooler if the radiator is doing its job).

This is what I'm talkign about.. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93983
edit: the above thermometer is only good to 230F, if if you way over heated it may not read the temp, they do make/sell some that will read higher but they cost $60ish+

~Mark


~Mark