My time just ran out

[BBF]

'99 Mountaineer 4.0L SOHC 4x4 w/165,477miles.

I've been meaning to get to those rattling chain tensioners. But heading home today, just 200yds from the drive, the oil pressure zero'd and the slight rattling is now like rocks in a tumbling can. Under the oil filler cap are 1/8th inch pieces of black rubber shavings; must have plugged the oil sump screen. I think the bearings, rings and cyl's are probably still good; no burnt oil smell, or rough running.

Do you think I'm right to assume it's at least an engine pull, clean out, chain tension system, gaskets and fluids?

It figures; just this summer I put in a rebuilt trans, new battery, and a new set of Michelins.

 

[koda2000]

i'd start will pulling the pan and see what you find. when my SOHC bites it (170k so far and it's been rattling since i got it 40k ago) i'm planning on putting in a newer '05 Mustang motor if i can find one cheap enough.

 

[2000StreetRod]

black rubber shavings?

I'm having trouble imagining the source for the black rubber shavings in the top of the head. I doubt they are part of the left guide assembly. Normally pieces of the primary chain tensioner (shown below on the right) would not end up in that location.

Could they be part of the valve cover gasket? This thread may be helpful: SOHC V6 Timing Chain Inspection & Repair

 

[boominXplorer]

To zero the oil pressure you would have to explode the tensioner, that might be the pieces you see. Time to pull the motor, tear it apart and inspect.

 

[FPGT24]

i'd start will pulling the pan and see what you find. when my SOHC bites it (170k so far and it's been rattling since i got it 40k ago) i'm planning on putting in a newer '05 Mustang motor if i can find one cheap enough.

+1

thats exactly what im doing with my 97 SOHC. my rear chain is rattling like a ***** at idle and you can hear is slap around like crazy when accelerating. mines got 143k miles. rattling started somewhere around 130k.

 

[FPGT24]

To zero the oil pressure you would have to explode the tensioner, that might be the pieces you see. Time to pull the motor, tear it apart and inspect.

I bought a 00 Ex XLT SOHC back in July for a grand with 221k miles. no timing chain noise when i bought it. the next day, front chains start rattling like a *****. later that day, oil pressure zero'd. I thought nothing of it thought something was wrong with the connection and kept driving it. Next day a mile from home, started hearing metal to metal noises. I knew even if i stopped the engine as soon as i heard the metal to metal that it was still blown anyway. Kept driving it till it died. When trying to restart it, you could hear the front chains slap hard against the engine casing. It would start for a few seconds sometimes but timing was off badly or motor was blown.

Anyone know why the oil pressure zeros when the timing chains are about to go?

 

[BBF]

Thanks for responding guys. Figure I'd start the inspection by looking under the valve covers then move to the oil pan.

Last engine I rebuilt was a 350 chevy, the previous owner replaced the factory fiber covered timing gear but didn't pull the pan. Within days of my owning it the sump plugged with the fiber pieces and it spun a main. I've rebuilt a couple engines but never an OHC with so many chains.

 

[2000StreetRod]

loss of oil pressure

. . . Anyone know why the oil pressure zeros when the timing chains are about to go?

The only thing I can think of is if the primary chain guide disentegrates. A tit on the rear of guide plugs an opening in a cross block oil passage as indicated by the green arrow in the photo below.

The oil pump is driven by a shaft that inserts into a spiral gear that engages another spiral gear on the rear of the jackshaft. If the primary chain breaks then the jackshaft would not turn and the oil pump would not rotate. However, if the jackshaft stops rotating then both camshafts would stop rotating and the engine would immediately stop. In the photo below looking at the front of the inverted block with the jackshaft removed, you can see the small spiral gear that engages the spiral gear on the jackshaft.

 

[BBF]

Thanks, that was going to be my next question "what drives the OP"?

I'll probably need more than just my Chiltons manual if I dive into this thing; suggestions?

Well this thing ran just fine but showed zero oil pressure and that nasty rattling. I got to thinking more and those rubber pieces in the oil must have started from up top, they're too big to get through an OP screen. They're not hard plastic, more like rubber shavings.

 

[2000StreetRod]

SOHC V6 assembly instructions

If you PM me your email address I'll send you a copy of the 2005 Mustang SOHC V6 assembly instructions.

I'm curious to find out what the rubber shavings are from.

 

[BBF]

Update: finally got a better look at the oil and able to get my fingers dirty.

Not rubber shavings. Just a lot of thick, flaky, caked, grunge from under the rocker covers falling off and tossed up onto the underside of the oil fill cap. when rubbed hard enough the flakes smear into almost a paste. Also, the oil on the dipstick is clean, no sparkley bits-n-pieces in the oil.

I changed oil about a week ago, yellow bottle 5w-30+wix filter usually run havoline+wix.

So now to figure what happened to the oil pressure and the nasty rattling.

Update part 2: Started (longest and 3rd time since event) it long enough to get into N so I could pull it and after about 3 seconds, the oil pressure came up to normal. Prior two starts were just a few seconds each, just long enough to see no oil pressure and lean under the hood to locate the now louder rattling; being I was afraid to do more damage. But it still rattle's; quieter that it did w/o op but louder than before event and there's a slight whining sound that wasn't there before. Now what? Fingers crossed.

 

[2000StreetRod]

oil pressure switch?

There's a possibility that some of the crud in the engine became lodged in the oil pressure switch. My engine was full of crud when I inspected it after owning it for about a year. I suspect the previous owner (lived in Texas) had removed the thermostat in an ignorant effort to solve an overheating tendency. I replaced the single row radiator with a double row radiator.

I agree with your plan to pull the valve covers and check the condition of the cassette guides. I would not pull the engine until I confirmed the rear guide assembly has failed. If it has then there's no point in working on the engine with it still in the vehicle. If it hasn't failed then pull the timing cover and check the primary tensioner and guide.

Check your email for the SOHC V6 assembly instructions which I sent.

 

[BBF]

I'm back where I started, maybe a brief reprieve. Ran it enough to pull around to our pad. Got oil pressure which quieted the rattle some, same pre-event rattle noise from the front drvr side chain but the rear chains are definitely much noisier than before.

 

[BBF]

Finally got around to draining the oil (no chunks) and dropping the oilpan (no chunks) but some stuff was plugging the pickup screen. A couple small chunks and one 1" piece of the guide plastic and a small piece of flat metal and a 1" piece of metal similar to a feeler gauge. I can't get my picture to load. Would these have come off of the rear chain or one of the front chains?

 

[2000StreetRod]

primary or balance shaft chain tensioner

I was able to view your photobucket picture using the link in my email notification of your post. I think the pieces are from either your primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain tensioner or from your balance shaft chain tensioner. If you have 2WD then you don't have a balance shaft so the source would be the primary tensioner.

 

[BBF]

I put the link in my last post but it didn't show a picture, so I edited it out. Thanks for looking at it for me.

I lost the thread about inspecting all of the tensioners starting with the right rear but can't find it now. I was going to use it as a guide for tearing into the engine.

Since this is a '99 I don't think it'll have the upgraded tensioners, right? Also, I'd like to keep this rig as long as possible so I assume sooner or later all of the tensioners will need replaced, right?

 

[2000StreetRod]

2WD or 4WD?

You didn't post if you have 2WD or 4WD.

To my knowledge all of the improved camshaft timing related components were incorporated in the 2002 and later Explorers. Some members think the Mustangs have more improvements but I doubt it.

These links may help:
Timing chain rattle resolution process - SOHC V6
SOHC V6 Timing Chain Inspection & Repair

I saw no evidence of the rear guide having failed in the photo. Unless there are other engine problems (worn rings, worn valves, blown head gasket, etc) I would not pull the engine unless the rear guide has failed or the balance shaft tensioner has failed and a functional balance shaft is desired. The left guide assembly and the primary guide and tensioner can be replaced by removing the front timing cover with the engine in the vehicle.

 

[BBF]

Oh, 4WD.

Thanks for the help. Yahoo, I might not have the pull the engine! Ya, that's the links I was looking for; thanks.

 

[BBF]

Finally had time to delve into checking the timing chains, started with the right rear (figured if it's bad I'd have to pull the engine anyway). I couldn't get a good photo or know how to grab just a frame out of a video so I put the whole video on my photobucket (I think it's shared; still trying to figure it out)http://s1218.beta.photobucket.com/u...edia/IMG_1057_zpse034e4c5.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

2000StreetRod, you knew how to get to it last time, can you help? Looking at video around 20 seconds and again at 70 seconds there's a good view of the rear tensioner.

It looks like the tensioner broke and the top half fell straight down and jammed against the chain. So I think this means I've got some pulling to do.

Right?

 

[2000StreetRod]

Broken guide assembly

. . . It looks like the tensioner broke and the top half fell straight down and jammed against the chain. So I think this means I've got some pulling to do.

After watching the video I agree that the right (rear) guide assembly is broken on the traction side. The only way to replace the guide assembly is to separate the engine and transmission. Since I don't have a hydraulic lift in my garage I prefer to remove the engine from the vehicle.