Newbie Needs a Damage Assessment

[orickoh]

Hi all. Newbie to the forum who had a very bad afternoon yesterday and I'd appreciate some insights into what kind of hell I'm facing.

We tow our 2007 Explorer SOHC 4.0 behind our motorhome and use it for local transportation while "camping". Yesterday we traveled about 40 miles from where we're staying in Flagstaff, Az. to do some sightseeing.

On the way home, the temp gauge shot up and warning light came on. By the time we got off of the freeway the engine was steaming pretty good. Looks like a leak around the thermostat.

We HAD to get back to our coach since our three dogs had been locked inside while we played golf, so we let her cool... filled her with water and drove for about another 10 miles before the temp began to climb again.

We stopped at a station and filled with water again ... just trying to limp home. Someone at the station suggested that we not tighten the radiator cap to avoid building pressure that would expel the water faster so I tried that.

Just two miles from home, the temp gauge was still in the middle range but the car began to lose power and suddenly stopped. From that point on, when I engage the starter the engine spins as though there's no compression and makes no attempt to start.

So... how badly did we screw the pooch here? The tow truck driver said he thinks it timing belt but..... Are the odds that I blew a head gasket or much worse?

My plan is to rent a car for the remainder of the time I'm here and then tow the Explorer back home near Phoenix this weekend but I'd like to know what kind of plans I'm going to have to make.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any help.

Rick
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[Ornery]

I wonder if the catalytic converter might be clogged, which caused overheating in the first place. Might also explain the "no compression" effect. Should be able to pull a code at this point.

 

[Explorer0693]

Hey, yes sounds like you have a leak but would you know where the leak is? Is it the radiator it self is it the hoses is it the thermostat it self?? And you probably didn't do much damage possible none at all. It could be as simple as changing a hose or expensive as a leaking radiator

 

[Flag Gibby]

I am in the Doney Park area of Flagstaff. I have some free time to take a look at it for you free of charge. Send me a private message if you would like me to.

 

[orickoh]

Thanks for the quick replies guys! It give me at least a glimmer of hope that I'm not looking at a new engine.

The leak appeared to be coming from the thermostat housing. (I took a photo to attach but can't see how to do it on this forum) From the little reading I've done here it sounds like that's a know problem. I couldn't tell exactly where it was spraying from but it appeared it could be from a crack in the housing(?) Can't confirm now since the engine won't run.

Can someone shed some light on how a clogged converter could cause the no compression symptom?

Gibby... thanks so much for the generous offer. I'll take you up on it. Check your PMs.

Thanks again guys.

Rick

 

[Ornery]

Car Won't Start?

COMMON CAUSES OF NO COMPRESSION

Plugged catalytic converter (Creates a restriction that causes exhaust backpressure to back up. Engine may start but usually dies within a minute or two).​

It's counter intuitive, but if there's enough backpressure, it can't build up compression. And, I'm just guessing, but that scenario fits everything you've mentioned. Kinda hope that's all it is.

 

[Flag Gibby]

Ok, just got back from looking at it and it still won't run. The only codes it had was an ABS communication error code and a random misfire code (misfire cylinder 2, 5, and 6). Also the instrument cluster is stating check charging system.

The thermostat housing split where the two sections are chemically welded together along the 12 to 3 o'clock position. It looks like it was a result of the thermostat bolts being over tightened since it required way too much effort to remove them and the thermostat o-ring was deformed way too much.
Since there was absolutely no coolant in the vehicle, I pulled the #4 plug to check for a lean condition (burnt plugs) or any coolant inside the cylinder and didn't find any indication of either. I pulled the oil dip stick to verify that no water was in the oil too. I also checked to make sure that there was fuel getting to the plugs and it is. Coil pack, and wires were also verified to be working. Since I noticed that all the plug gaps were out of spec. (at 0.065 or greater), I replaced all the spark plugs to known working ones that I keep as spares.

Bottom line the vehicle spins over but doesn't start. I even tried completely disconnecting the alternator to see if the coolant/water spraying all over the place under the hood shorted it out and was keeping it from starting, but no luck.

I cleared the misfire codes and they have not come back, but if the fuel isn't igniting then it is hard to get misfire codes. I brought my compression tester with me but I forgot to test the compression because I would expect the engine to stumble and then die for it to be an exhaust restriction, but all it does is turn over and there is raw fuel on the plugs when you pull them out.

Alright guys what did I forget to check that would be keeping the fuel from not combusting besides completely plugged converters?? Something in the charging system??
Man I am hating myself for not checking the compression when I was there now.

 

[polizi212]

Coil pack, and wires were also verified to be working.

Gibby how did you verify the coils and all the wires were working? Seams to me that with that much misfire something has gone a stray, like timing or its not getting spark in multiple cylinders?

 

[Flag Gibby]

Gibby how did you verify the coils and all the wires were working? Seams to me that with that much misfire something has gone a stray, like timing or its not getting spark in multiple cylinders?

Old trick of putting a screwdriver in the boot and hold it to metal while you crank. Did that for cylinders 2, 5, and 6. Also, I swapped out my working coil pack with his and no change.

I agree, that is why I am wondering if something got shorted out in the charging system that would keep it from starting with all the water being sprayed everywhere inside the engine compartment (he filled it up two different times to limp it back the 40 or so miles he needed to go and it had absolutely no coolant in it when it finally died for good so the oil was doing all the cooling for the engine).

 

[polizi212]

ah yes I know that trick as well so we know that 2, 5, 6 all work but what about 1,3,4? It really sounds like a ignition issue perhaps even if its getting spark it might not be enough! Was his battery fully charged? Can he have someone jump start his vehicle to see if it needs a bit of extra juice?

 

[Flag Gibby]

I had my portable jump starter (500 CCA) with me so it should have had more than enough between the two. Plus it spun just as fast with and without my jump starter hooked up to it.

 

[orickoh]

And even though we didn't get it running... I can't thank Gibby enough for taking time out of his day and spending time troubleshooting this issue!

Great forum and great people!

Rick

 

[polizi212]

Gibby, i should have known you would have covered the bases! LOL Good job! If it getting fuel and its getting spark not much else can be the issue. When cranking over can any exhaust pressure be felt at the end of the exhaust pipe? Did anyone open the Air Filter box and make sure its free of debris? I am just throwing some stuff out there to cover the rest! orickoh the guys are this forum do a great job helping others!

 

[Flag Gibby]

I didn't check for any pulsing/pressure at the end of the pipe, but I did have to move the air filter box to get at #1-3 plugs easier and it has a brand new air filter in it and no signs of any restrictions in the intake.
Like I mentioned in my summary, I really wish I had just taken another 10 minutes and run a compression test on one of the cylinders, but oh well. The thing that is interesting is that it just doesn't quite sound right when it is turning over. I cannot quite put my finger on why though, but it could just be the fact that I am used to hearing the engine fire after about 1 second of cranking.

 

[Ornery]

I'll just drop this bomb, and run...

My car overheated and won't start now?

We should all keep this in mind for future reference. I know I will!

 

[Flag Gibby]

Nice one Ornery... You know, the only thing that I didn't do was pull the battery terminals and reset the computer... Worth a shot since I didn't see any indication of any engine damage on the plugs except for some light oil blowby on cylinder #4 and maybe some coolant combustion on #1 and 2, but nothing major.

Oh, well... hope for the best and expect the worst right?

Edit: Asked around my other automotive buddies here and they have never seen the coolant combust on the plugs... it just stays on them in liquid form so no coolant on the plugs. Could be fuel additives that I was seeing on them (a few spots of small green flakes here and there much like oxidized copper but no typical look of overheating).

 

[Ornery]

You established there is spark and fuel, so what's left? Only question left is, "What's the cheapest route to an engine swap, or rebuild?" Could it be done for as little as $2,500? Silver lining would be getting a fresh engine. If it were a V8 you'd be able to address the leaking exhaust manifold. I think the early 4.0 had some quirks that could be taken care of now. You know what they say, "When life hands you lemons..."

 

[Flag Gibby]

Well I really hope that it is not :roll: maybe it only needs some
Good luck Rick!!!! and thanks for the input Ornrey and polizi.

 

[orickoh]

Thanks to all. I'll just remain in denial until next week when I tow it in for an autopsy. It's only money.

Rick

 

[polizi212]

Rick. Please keep us updated on what happens, we are all curious now!