No First Gear?!?!?!?

[mbryda]

Hello All!
One question I'd thought I'd ask some other people with more experience before I take the truck to the shop and look like a fool.
Yesterday the wife and I were up in the mountains on some nice dirt/gravel/rock roads and I was using 4Lo and Hi. (Man 4WD makes a lot of strange noises!) Coming down one of the hills (not a bad one), truck was in 4Hi and I decided to put the transmission in 1st (we were doing maybe 10-20 tops) to save some wear on the brakes. Put the lever into 1st, nothing - the tach just stays near idle. Put it in 2 and it jumps up a little, but there is still not much braking in the gear. So I just used the brakes the whole way down.
Got to the hard road, switched back to Auto mode and decided to see what was going on. From a dead stop, put the selector in 1 and pulled out. Got up to 20-30 and let off the gas - tach went from around 4K down to almost idle in a couple of seconds - felt like we were in neutral. Hit the gas again and tach started going up until the RPMS matched the speed and we had power again. Put it in 2 and immediately the trans upshifted. Sped up a little and let off the gas and the RPMS stayed there and we had some engine braking. WTF - How can I not have engine braking in 1 - the manual says it provides more engine braking than in 2.
Checked ATF level at the gas station and it was at the 1/2 way mark on the crosshatch, which the dipstick says NOT to add any in the crosshatch area.
Go out this AM (it was cold) and after pulling out of my driveway decided to pull away in 1. Got up to about 20 and let off the gas, there was some engine braking and RPM's stayed up, but not like what I would have expected. When I got to work, I tried the same thing in the parking lot, and the same thing happened - let off the gas and the RPMs started back to idle with no braking ability.
So, before I'm off to the dealer:
1) Is this normal operation for the 5R55E transmission? All the automatics I have ever driven always have engine braking in 1st...

2) Any clues on what could be causing this? Transmission shifts great, crisp and without hint of slipping. Drop the pedal down to the floor and she downshifts right away. Convertor locks up good and everything seems to be shifting/working right. No OD light or Check Engine light, either.

3) Any idea how to best explain this to the dealer?

Thanks for any hints/Ideas/TSB's!

-Matt

 

[Robert]

That is not the way my '97 5-speed auto behaves. If I put it in 1, speed up and let off the gas, it acts very similar to a manual transmission in 1st gear when slowing down. I use 1 all the time when decending steep mountains when off-roading. 4x4 low and held into 1 provide decent engine braking, but really steep hills it will still accelerate a little.

 

[GJarrett]

Matt, you are leaving out a very important piece of info. What YEAR, MODEL, and ENGINE do you have?

My '99 does the same thing. I do not know if there was a change in tranny settings between '97 and '99 (have heard it may have been done to give the vehicle another 0.1 mpg EPA rating) or if it is really a problem with the tranny.

Let me know what your Ford service dept finds out because I am in the same boat and need to get it fixed also.

 

[JoeC5]

Since we are on the topic, i have a 93 EB with 101k. My problem is when i put it in 2. From a dead stop i decided to put it in 2 to my surprise the truck seemed like it did not want to go anywhere. RPM's stayed very low even when i floored it. I mean it is really really sluggish. Gear 1 works fine and all the others also, meaning from a dead stop the car takes off. Could this be problem w/ gear 2 be a sign of a wearing tranny?

 

[Kampy]

Matt and Gerald, something is wrong, you should have compression braking when in manual first. I don't know what the cause is but it isn't right.

Joe, thats normal, all ford transmissions that I've ever driven or worked on from my wifes 64 stang to present day trucks are set up that way. When the trans is put in "2" or second thats what gear it's in. Supposedly it was for snow and ice conditions to reduce torque output as an aid to prevent spinning out. Thats how it was explained to me years ago by both a ford mechanic and the owners manual. As a matter of fact the mustang owners manual makes a reference to it. My 90 ranger is like that and has been since day 1.

 

[mbryda]

Going to call the dealer tomorrow

Thanks. That's the way every othe Automatic I've driven worked. (tested with my wife's Escort the other night) I did a little more testing last night and when decelerating to a stop at a light, at about 40, I went from OD to 2, no problem some engine braking, 2 to 1 and the truck seemed to shift to Neutral - RPMS went down to around 500-1000.

BTW: 2nd workd like it's supposed to - holds the truck in second gear - even from a dead stop.

-Matt

BTW2: The Truck is a Y2K with the SOHC/5R55E 5-speed.

 

[Robert]

Re: Going to call the dealer tomorrow

Originally posted by mbryda
Thanks. That's the way every othe Automatic I've driven worked. (tested with my wife's Escort the other night) I did a little more testing last night and when decelerating to a stop at a light, at about 40, I went from OD to 2, no problem some engine braking, 2 to 1 and the truck seemed to shift to Neutral - RPMS went down to around 500-1000.

BTW: 2nd workd like it's supposed to - holds the truck in second gear - even from a dead stop.

-Matt

BTW2: The Truck is a Y2K with the SOHC/5R55E 5-speed.

You are not going into 1 at too high of speed are you? I don't know exactly what would happen, but I suspect that either it would go into the lowest gear that was safe for the engine or it might freewheel until it gets to a slow enough speed for the engine. I know Ford changed the transmission shift strategy on the '98s on up. People have reported that their Explorers shifted at a lower RPM than mine does at full throttle. Ford did it because of either emissions or gas mileage reasons.

 

[mbryda]

Re: Re: Going to call the dealer tomorrow

Originally posted by Robert
You are not going into 1 at too high of speed are you? I don't know exactly what would happen, but I suspect that either it would go into the lowest gear that was safe for the engine or it might freewheel until it gets to a slow enough speed for the engine. I know Ford changed the transmission shift strategy on the '98s on up. People have reported that their Explorers shifted at a lower RPM than mine does at full throttle. Ford did it because of either emissions or gas mileage reasons. [/B]

Well, I dono. According to the manual, you can put it into 1 at almost any gear and the transmission will downshift when appropriate. When starting in 1st, I can get to 30 at about 4k RPMS. So, that's about where I shifted from 2 to 1. It just dropped into like a neutral gear with the RPMs droppping to almost idle. Slowing down to a stop from 30, the transmission never "downshifts" to first at any speed along the way.

I'll post what the delaer says after I get the truck back. It definately is an interesting problem!

-Matt

 

[gijoecam]

Sounds odd... on my 98 sport, if you manually select 1 at high speed, it drops into second until you decelerate to about 45, then it drops into 1st. If you accelerate in first, it will stay locked and compression brake when you take your foot off the gas. I use it all the time for rush hour traffic and have never had a problem. (The trans is about the ONLY thing I've never had problems with on that POS!)
Keep us posted.

 

[GJarrett]

Bump

I want to keep this up in the topics. Have you heard anything yet? Mine does it even if I engage first at a full stop. In others words, there is NO engine braking in first gear no matter the situation. I believe it was designed into the later models but the trannies are the same so maybe all that needs to be done is to adjust a band or something in the tranny.

Keep us posted. I have to get this fixed before Moab. It killed me in Colorado having to ride my brakes all the way down the Rockies. I got in front on the Alpine Loop so I could coast down the slopes with second gear braking. I ended up half a mile in front of the group and lost a few teeth fillings on the way down. Someone called me "Speedy Gonzalez" on the CB. All I was trying to do was not fry my brakes.

 

[Robert]

It probably has more to do with a revised program in your PCM thanks to Ford. I tested my '97 again on Sunday and what I found was that at speeds above about 40 MPH or so when I select 1, it shifts into what feels like 3rd. Once I slow down below 40 MPH or so, it makes the downshift to 1 and feels like the equivalent to letting the clutch out on a manual equipped car at about 40 MPH in 1st gear. In other words, excellent engine braking. If I stop and put it into 1, it will hold it in 1 for as long as I was willing to accelerate. I didn't keep the gas down all the way to red-line though so I don't know if it would have went ahead an upshifted or just not let me accelerate anymore. When I let off the gas again, it slowed down very quickly without the brakes.

 

[GJarrett]

That's been true for quite awhile with Ford trannies. My '93 Taurus did the same thing. For protection it wouldn't downshift into first until it slowed down enough to handle it.

Once again, this problem is DIFFERENT from that. Something was changed after 1997. I have not learned yet if the change occured in 1998 or 1999, but whatever it was, it DID happen.

There is NO engine braking at ANY TIME no matter what the situation while in first gear, and we need a fix to help us safely keep our brakes while on long descents.


[Edited by GJarrett on 11-21-2000 at 06:06 PM]

 

[mbryda]

The truck's at the Dealers...

All,
I dropped the truck off this evening and am having them look at the transmission problem and a couple of other items as well. They say that it will be ready tomorrow, so I will post results as soon as I get them from the dealer.
I agree that this is an unsafe situation and one that should not be the result of a PCM reprogram. It states right in the owner's manual that the 1 position provides more engine braking than the 2 position. That alone leads me to beleive that it should be dropping into first and holding it there when the speed warrants.
Maybe I will try this in the Y2K Taurus that they gave me as a loaner and see if it reacts the way it should. So far my wife's Escort (99) works like it should.

-Matt

 

[mbryda]

First Gear...

Originally posted by GJarrett

Once again, this problem is DIFFERENT from that. Something was changed after 1997. I have not learned yet if the change occured in 1998 or 1999, but whatever it was, it DID happen.

There is NO engine braking at ANY TIME no matter what the situation while in first gear, and we need a fix to help us safely keep our brakes while on long descents.

Just got off the phone with the foreman at the Ford dealer about the transmission problem. According to him, you should have engine braking in first gear, just like you do in second. I explained my situation to him and it definately struck him as a problem. He was going to road test the truck and verify this operation. I should know more later this afternoon. They hope to have my truck back to me by this evening. I sure hope they do, as I am heading towards Pittsburgh tonight and I hear they are in for quite a storm this evening (3-6 inches) and I don't want to take the loaner Taurus through that!

-Matt

 

[GJarrett]

Thanks for the info. Please find out what the specific fix was so I can point my Ford tech straight to it.

 

[David Pratt]

No first gear

I have A 2001 sporttrac that has the same problem. tried to use first gear last week to slow me down on a steep downgrade I put it in first at 10mph and it did nothing! no holdback at all. If you stop and put it in first it will go in and stay there until you let up on the gas then the motor go's to idle. get back on the gas the rpm's go right back up.It go's in the shop next week,there should be engine braking when it is in first! Have a good one Dave

 

[mbryda]

Just got back from the Dealer

All,
Just got back from the Ford dealer and here's the scoop:

Apparently the problem is in the valve body separator gasket. The service foreman was on the phone with the factory that made the transmission (heck of a phone call - they are in France I think) and they immediately told them what to replace. I'm thinking there was a bad batch of gaskets or something. So the gasket is on order and they are going to replace that next week.

Everyone, do yourself a favor and check the operation of your 1 gear position and get it fixed if it does not provide engine braking

Scary/funny thing was when I asked the service foreman if this was a common problem he said not too many people actually use the 1 position manually. Most only put it in drive and that's it. Hence the reason he had to call the factory...

-Matt

 

[GJarrett]

Matt,
Many thanks. I am going to print this thread when I take mine to the dealer!

And I agree, I bet this problem is MUCH more common than anyone realizes, since no one ever really uses 1st for engine braking except for people like us.

Once again, thanks for the info.

 

[David Pratt]

Thanks for the info! Great web site. Your right, most people don't use manuel first gear, it would be interesting to see how many out there don't have first gear engine braking.Thanks for the info. Dave

 

[mbryda]

I wonder...

I wonder if it is such a common problem why they arn't putting the new gaskets on the new trucks. I beleive mine was built in March of 2000, which would be relatively late in the model year. You would think that a problem as potentially serious as this Ford would take action right away, as it could potentially cause a huge liability problem for them...

-Matt
(Glad I could help!)