OBD-II conspiracy?

[MrShorty]

I was listening to an automotive call in show on the radio earlier today. The mechanic (a manager from a regional chain of tune-up/repair shops) had something interesting to say about OBD-II. He said, "In 1995, the government mandated the switch to OBD-II in order to keep people from doing their own diagnoses at home. They wanted people to take their problems to a professional instead of doing the work themselves." or something to that effect. I haven't independently verified his statement, but it's something I've often wondered about. Anyone besides me find this attitude offensive?

Of course there's nothing that can be done about it now. Fortunately, both my vehicles are OBD-I. I wonder, though: Now that OBD-II scanners are getting more available to the do-it-yourselfer, will they try to come up with an OBD-III?

 

[aldive]

Why could the Government care where your car was serviced. I think that fellow is out to lunch.

OBD II scanners are very reasonably priced and simple to use.

The one I have is http://www.autocheckup.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=achkup&Category_Code=ST2 at $230.00.

 

[MrShorty]

Ok, I'll concede that the government may not care who services my car, but the government did mandate the switch to OBD-II, probably to get the industry to develop a consistent standard. But then the industry developed a standard that was initially inaccesible to the average person. How long would it have taken people like Autoxray, etc. to come out with a reasonably priced (<$300) scanner? The big question I've always had, why did it have to change enough to require a special scanning tool? I recognize that OBD-II has greater capabilities (ie more codes) but why the necessity of alphanumeric codes instead of numeric codes like OBD-I?

I guess the real issue I have is this: I don't like it when someone tells me what I can and can't do.

 

[aldive]

Originally posted by MrShorty
I guess the real issue I have is this: I don't like it when someone tells me what I can and can't do.

All things change except for the need for change.

I remember when we hot rodded ignition systems with single points, then along came dual points, now computers. First we had flat head motors, then OHV motors and along came OHC motors....

Who told you what you can and can't do?

 

[Rick]

What you REALLY need to worry about is your cars computer being used against you...

With a small amount of memory it can tell anyone who plugs into it what the maximum speed was for say the past 30 minutes, the maximum Gs encountered during turns or during the collision etc... I was talking to one of Ford's engineers about this and he said it's coming. In part to help alleviate the company from liability by proving you used the vehicle outside of it's intended limits.

 

[aldive]

and thats another whole ball of wax....

 

[The Godfather]

The companies already do a good enough job getting you to pay for professional service by putting things in near impossible places to remove or forcing you to use special tools. With my Datsun, you can take half of it apart with a $50 metric tool set.

I think government madates on cars are wrong as they just impose rules on everybody to gain more control. The gov't doesn't like to not have control over something. What they have imposed on cars have for the most part been failures. Why did my cousins 88 Crown Vic with supposid "old school" crash technology break in half a 00 Grand Cherokee with "new school" tech? The front end was pushed back 1 foot on the CV, the whole GC was bent in half and the axle broke off. Which is safer?

As for the "black boxes" I think ultimately they could be a good thing. It would eliminate some of the he said she said in accidents and dramatically reduce lawsuits, theoretically ending up in lower insurance premiums. It would also help the car companies out with lawsuits as in SUV roll overs. I say 90% of roll over accidents are caused by the idiots that buy these things and think they can drive them like cars.

 

[Rick]

As for the "black boxes" I think ultimately they could be a good thing. It would eliminate some of the he said she said in accidents and dramatically reduce lawsuits, theoretically ending up in lower insurance premiums. [/B]

Sorry, but I can't help, but laugh at the thought of something added to our cars lowering our insurance premiums. We have front impact airbags, side impact airbags, roll over curtains, antilock brakes, safety glass, seatbelts... etc... when was the last time your insurance went down? And if it did go down on one vehicle did it go up on another? Our rates continue to go in one direction no matter what new "life and injury" saving technology is added.

Before 1965 there were NO safety items on cars. yet the insurance rates go up and up and up...

For many young people they could by a NEW car with the money spent on insurance in the time it takes to pay off a loan!

Sorry this is off the original OBD-II discussion.

 

[Lemondrop]

I work for a Caterpillar dealer , our ECM (PCM in Ford lingo) is able to record many things .
We can record the max speed the truck has gone (you'd be amazed at the speeds Ive seen recorded on a 18 wheeler)
We can record engine temps that are high , exact temp that is when the engine overheated . I can find the max RPM the engine has ever turned . I can find out hgow much time it's spent idling compared to driving . I can find out through quick-stop how many times the driver has slammed the brakes and stopped too fast . (shows if they tailgate alot)
I can find out almost anything about what the truck has done short of G's in turns . They can do it right now on cars if they wanted . There is even more stuff coming out in the next year for the new emission regulations for heavy trucks . I feel for the other manufacturers other than Cat's service guys as they are gonna run EGR's on thier diesels (which has about a 10% chance of working ) . They new systems require new Turbo's , and a series of relays and valves to control the exhaust gas back into the intake . They have to cool the exhaust down with a external cooler just to reuse it . The Government said they estimate over the life of a truck to add like $20,000 in expenses to the truck due to EGR system failures and scheduled repairs . Thats a big OUCH ! Makes me not feel so bad when I have to repair my X

 

[The Godfather]

Originally posted by Rick


Sorry, but I can't help, but laugh at the thought of something added to our cars lowering our insurance premiums. We have front impact airbags, side impact airbags, roll over curtains, antilock brakes, safety glass, seatbelts... etc... when was the last time your insurance went down? And if it did go down on one vehicle did it go up on another? Our rates continue to go in one direction no matter what new "life and injury" saving technology is added.

Before 1965 there were NO safety items on cars. yet the insurance rates go up and up and up...

For many young people they could by a NEW car with the money spent on insurance in the time it takes to pay off a loan!

Sorry this is off the original OBD-II discussion.

That's why I said THEORETICALLY.

 

[jimmiecakes]

Auto emission control systems (notably the electronics and diagnosis) from each manufacturer were getting too disparate and were on a path that would have the dealerships as being the only choice for repair in these areas. The government mandated OBDll as a way to standardize the systems and methods of data retrieval - effectively breaking any monopoly the manufacturers may have been heading for.

The switch to OBDll had absolutely nothing to do with DIY repairs. The "mechanic" from the big box store is a manager for a reason and it likely isn't because he's a good mechanic.

 

[Keith]

Well if you want something to support your theory of the government and automakers having ODB-II put in cars so you would have to go to a professional would be.

Automakers and government are the same people. Automakers could say hey I know how we can make more money we design this computer system that only we can use have the government sell it to the public as something good. Then everyone that buys our cars will have to come back to us to have work done. In return we make more money. And even if other companies produce code scanners how many people are actually going to go out and but them.

As for the computer systems that track our driving and will supposedly lower our insurance I must laugh to. Insurance has to be one of the biggest rip offs. I was doing some calculations in my head the other day after hearing what my friend pays for insurance. He is 20 years old. Has a 91 Honda and pays $4000 a year. Now after a year of payments he will pay more in insurance then what the car is actually worth. So lets say everything goes good for 3 years then totals the car. So the insurance company has made and easy $9000 off of him.

Keith

 

[IgotTwo]

I think the government stepped with ODB II because the car makers were getting more and more sneeky and making the diag of their cars so proprietary that consumers had no choice but to service there vehicles at one place, the orginial manufacturer. Holding the patents to all the different systems, each could put them out of reach $$$$ from garages and non affilatied repair shops...... so the goverment said ...thats a red flag

As the risk of practicing law with out a licsence.. i think it its restrain of trade.

Fact: Cars HAD to go hi tech to meet emission and as a matter of the course of events. So who is kidding who?

I think this is one of the few times the govenment caught the "big guys"
As to the guy who said:
In, 1995, the government mandated the switch to OBD-II in order to keep people from doing their own diagnoses at home."

He should keep his day job and start looking for alien spaceships or stop watching the X- files.
Everything changes