Oh crap. I messed with my rear brakes and I think I screwed up.

[1995E]

Front brakes provide like 80-90% of total braking power. Rear brakes alone should not create the "low pedal" situation that the OP described. My guess is air got into the brake lines when the OP opened up the reservoir cap. Usually not a big deal when opening up but if the pads were pretty worn, then incrementally more fluid is needed to create the pressure in the lines and the brake fluid level gets lower and lower, which allows more space for air to enter.

OP - Did you pump the brakes before you replaced the cap? Agree with others to change with new pads (and don't forget to bed them in) but I'm guessing you need to bleed your brakes too. And make sure to retorque the lugs to specs. Over-torquing can lead to warped rotors.

Also agree with others that you can't swap around brake pads. Pads when bedded properly follow the specific contours of the rotors to which they are attached. Swapping them out is almost like trying to put a round peg in a square hole.

Thanks all for the replies. I did not pump the brakes before I replaced the cap. I just put new pads in, and I am still having the same problem. Parking brake goes all the way to the floor and the driver side rear caliper doesn't seem to be gripping onto the rotor at all with the parking brake on.

I did this today: Lifted up driver side rear wheel up, released parking brake, took wheel off, took caliper off, hanged caliper, opened brake fluid reservoir cap, put new pads, compressed piston with rotating brake piston tool all the way down, put the cap back on. Put wheel back on. Pumped the brakes. Started car, pumped brakes. Did same procedure on other side. I never touched the bleeders and the brake fluid tank never went below the minimum line.

Even when I pumped the brakes, and with new pads, there's still a gap in the driver side rear caliper which is abou 2 to 3 mm. It does compress when the parking brake is applied, and it does compress all the way when the brakes are pressed, but it will release and leave that gap again.

Was I not supposed to compress the pistons all the way down? Do I need to bleed the brakes?

The brakes feel as soft as yesterday. It will catch when I press the brake pedal about a cm, but then it will slowly travel down to the floor. Should I bleed the brakes or will that not do anything?

 

[DeepBlueSC]

If it's just that wheel you can try bleeding that one, but you may want to apply and release the parking brake a bunch of times. It tends to ratchet the piston out faster than the pedal will.

 

[1995E]

If it's just that wheel you can try bleeding that one, but you may want to apply and release the parking brake a bunch of times. It tends to ratchet the piston out faster than the pedal will.

When I pump my brakes, do I do it with the car on or off?

 

[wifes2011xlt]

Sorry, but that is just plain bogus info:
1. Even old disc/drum set-ups weren't 80% front bias under any condition except having no back brake system.
2. Additionally, as little as 1/8" distance between the piston/pad and rotor will allow the pedal to bottom out in most systems.
3. As air ALWAYS seeks higher ground, there is no way air could be introduced into the lines from having the reservoir cap off. That is an absolute physical impossibility. In fact, you could stick a straw into the reservoir and blow and still not introduce air down the lines!
4. The OP pushed all the fluid from the system into the reservoir when he compressed the pistons, so now he needs to get it back from the reservoir to the pistons. Keep in mind that filling 2 piston bores with fluid from worn pads can trigger most brake warning lights.

Prove your theory: Push any piston all the way in and put an 1/8" shim in place of one pad. Show the video of how far your pedal traveled...

Oh dear, you're taking me way too seriously. Lighten up Francis. Was just trying to point out other causes. His issue started with brake pads. I just found it hard to believe the low pedal was due to pads and pads alone. Seems like my guess out of my [MENTION=127576]ss[/MENTION] was actually right as new pads were put in and still has the same problem. The remedy that I suggested of bleeding the brakes seems to be fine by you though, bogus info and all. At least we agree on something. I'm just trying help out the OP, not get into an internet weeing match. Will it help if I say that you are 100% correct and i'm 100% wrong? Hope so cuz I don't have the time or patience for it.

As for instructing me to prove "my" theory. It wasn't my theory. It was yours. When should we expect to see you post up the video?

 

[DeepBlueSC]

Oh dear, you're taking me way too seriously. Lighten up Francis. Was just trying to point out other causes. His issue started with brake pads. I just found it hard to believe the low pedal was due to pads and pads alone. Seems like my guess out of my [MENTION=127576]ss[/MENTION] was actually right as new pads were put in and still has the same problem. The remedy that I suggested of bleeding the brakes seems to be fine by you though, bogus info and all. At least we agree on something. I'm just trying help out the OP, not get into an internet weeing match. Will it help if I say that you are 100% correct and i'm 100% wrong? Hope so cuz I don't have the time or patience for it.

As for instructing me to prove "my" theory. It wasn't my theory. It was yours. When should we expect to see you post up the video?

Nice try professor! Shameful that you offer repair/service advice on brakes and then, when called on the carpet over information you posted, indicate that you shouldn't be taken seriously. That last sentence is the only advice the OP should take from you. You're freely entitled to your own opinions, however you're not entitled to your own facts.

Oh, it was you who stated "Front brakes provide like 80-90% of total braking power. Rear brakes alone should not create the "low pedal" situation that the OP described." Prove it. Show your work...

 

[DeepBlueSC]

OP: As a rule, ABS systems don't like to have the pedal pushed as far as it can go when pumping after a brake service or during bleeding. Short, half strokes are recommended. You can bleed running or off, however off is the preferred method.

 

[swshawaii]

Gen 5 Explorer's have known issues for failing rear calipers or pads. Search "caliper" in this 2011-16 sub forum.

One of many posts:

Ford Explorer: Are Your Rear Brakes Dragging... Most Likely Yes!

While this should be a non issue it is happening to allot of these, many with only 20k miles on them. What is happening is the rear caliper bracket is rusting so bad it wedges the pad and they never release and drag the whole time you are driving. If you have even low miles on your explorer I...

www.explorerforum.com

 

[1995E]

Was I stating facts? You did see the part where I said "my guess" about air getting in the lines, right? As for the low pedal comment, how was I supposed to know the OP's brake pads were worn down to whatever minimum threshold that you state would cause low pedal? And I wasn't the one that suggested the 1/8" threshold in the supposed theory that I shared. It was you that did. I have no intention of taking credit for your theory. If you want to prove it, cool. If not, then you know what, I guess I'm just gonna have to believe you.

In any case, everyone should just back up cuz DeepBlue has this covered. Where are we at again? Bleed the brake? Ya, try bleeding the brake. Great original suggestion. What are you gonna suggest next? Bed the new pads? Torque lugs to specs? I can't wait.

I appreciate your tips. You know this is a great forum when people are fighting because they are so eager to help you out. xD Everyone's posts have been helpful and I hope no one beats each other up on here over my brakes.

Anyway, the spongey pedal to the floor stuff happened after I touched my brakes. My pads still had a few mm to them like 3 mm or 4mm on the smallest one.

I can't bleed the brakes because of this storm and I don't have a hose or a bottle to catch the fluid but it seems that pumping the brakes might actually be working because the pedal actually feels a bit firmer and doesn't go all the way to the floor anymore so I'll just keep doing that because the brakes are feeling less spongey. I won't go to work on it. I'll just keep pumping in my driveway and do a short pass around the neighborhood at slow speeds and to that empty area to brake a little.

I also drove to an empty area and just braked super hard as suggested in this video in case the abs had some crap stuck in it or something.

Anyhow, I won't be compressing the pistons all the way back anymore when changing brakes.

Question though, when people do brake jobs, do they compress the pistons all the way or just enough to get the pads in? Maybe my left side brake caliper is bad or something? I compressed them all the way so maybe that's my issue here but is it really that hard to get the fluid back into the piston or the piston to be extended back enough to not allow a gap between the pad and the piston? Note that I haven't bleed the brakes yet. Another question I have is that does bleeding the brakes allow the piston to extend back out? I think that's my problem here. Anyhow, I'll keep pumping until my brakes are back to where I want them.

 

[1995E]

Also, not to double post but here is a video of my brakes yesterday after I messed with it and put the old pads back on. However, today, it's still the same caliper but with a little less travel after I compressed it completely and put in new pads. Maybe this will help clarify my issue.

 

[Bobmbx]

Also, not to double post but here is a video of my brakes yesterday after I messed with it and put the old pads back on. However, today, it's still the same caliper but with a little less travel after I compressed it completely and put in new pads. Maybe this will help clarify my issue.

I would say that is not normal, speaking only from my own experience with my own vehicles. Is it just the one side? I think the loose caliper may have existed before you started all this, and is the cause of your uneven pad wear.

I'm not versed in that type of brake system, but I'd suggest you might need new calipers.

 

[shucker1]

1995E,

Go back to the basics.

KISS Principle (Keep It Simple Stu*&d).

No intent to be demeaning in that phrase.

My best advice? Bleed all (4) wheels. Engine off while doing it.

Don't let the master cylinder run dry and use fresh fluid. (DOT 3 or DOT 4). Don't use DOT 5 unless you plan on redoing the entire system.

Start with Right Rear then Left Rear, Right Front then Left Front.

You might be surprised how much air may come out.

That's what I would try first.

 

[wifes2011xlt]

OP - Glad to hear your situation is improving. Once you get all that slop in your pedal figured out, check out the link to bedding brakes. Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I just couldn't find it when I first mentioned the process. This part of the brake install might actually be fun for you.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

 

[tidmarshsmiths5]

Can anyone show him a pic of how it should look?

 

[1995E]

OP - Glad to hear your situation is improving. Once you get all that slop in your pedal figured out, check out the link to bedding brakes. Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I just couldn't find it when I first mentioned the process. This part of the brake install might actually be fun for you.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Oh, wow! Thanks for the link! I never heard of bedding in brakes. Especially since every time I have gotten them
Changed at a shop, no one has ever mentioned anything like this.

Also, to confirm. After a bit more driving and stuff, my brakes now brake close to before and more sponges to the floor stuff. The parking brake will now actually catch the pad to the rotOrs on the driver rear now as before there was a gap and would not catch at all. Although, my parking brake has to hit close to the floor to be effective. As if it was loose or something and the gap between the caliper piston and the pads is now 1mm. I am guessing a little more driving will close that gap up. I will bleed the brakes tomorrow ( guessing there is no air but I will do it anyway ) and change my brake fluid completely when I do the fronts.

I wonder if compressing the Pistons all the way was the problem. Next time, I will just compress the piston enough to fit the pads firmly.

Also, I'd like to thank everyone again for the help. The quick responses saved me from having a huge problem and allowed me to drive my car again today.

 

[tmg19103]

I put Akebono ceramics on my Saab last year. They are self-bedding. They will bed with regular driving.

I could tell the pads where not completely flush with the rotor and that would not happen until they wore down a bit. Once that happened I was very happy with the braking power, which was less until bedded. Also like no brake dust.

That being said, the need to bed should not cause a mushy brake pedal per se. You may have to push a little harder until pads bed, but with just the rears I'd be surprised.

Like a previous poster said. I'd start from scratch and bleed all the brakes just to play it safe.

 

[orangesoda123]

I'm also thinking that doing a full system bleed might be a good idea. You'll have to find a buddy to help you bleed them or look into one of the kits to do it by yourself.


Heres a cheap one man bleeder set: AMPRO

 

[wifes2011xlt]

Here's hoping you don't run into any issues opening the bleeders. A little (or a lot) of penetrating oil the night before might help.

 

[dco43054]

Anyhow, I won't be compressing the pistons all the way back anymore when changing brakes.

Yes, you will. It's the only way to create enough room to get fresh pads in.

If you haven't already spent the $45 or so for new rear pads, go do it and fix this right. Doinking around with the rest of this stuff will just prolong what you really need to do at this point - put new pads in it. And check your rotors as well. Those aren't as cheap as pads.

 

[1995E]

Yes, you will. It's the only way to create enough room to get fresh pads in.

If you haven't already spent the $45 or so for new rear pads, go do it and fix this right. Doinking around with the rest of this stuff will just prolong what you really need to do at this point - put new pads in it. And check your rotors as well. Those aren't as cheap as pads.

I did put new pads and I had the same spongey pedal feel because there was still a bit of space between the new pads and caliper piston because I compressed them all the way for the job. Although, it did go away after some driving so it's all good now.

 

[Xlrick1969]

Okay, so long story short. I did my tire rotation today along with removing the rear caliper to inspect the brakes and stuff. All I did was mess with the rears. I removed the bolts that attach to the sliding pins, remove the caliper, hang the caliper so it didn't hang off the hose, took the brake fluid cap off, and all I did was use those special tools that rotate the caliper while compressing it and compressed it.

I noticed that the pads closer to the car were unevenly warn out compared to the ones on the outside ( much less pad material ) so I decided I'd just swap the outside ones with the inside ones so they'd last a bit longer seeing as the ones on the inside of the car wore out faster. Anyway, I did that, then I just put the caliper back on, and my wheel on. That's all I did.

After starting my car, I noticed my brakes felt very loose and that it'd brake but then the pedal would slowly get closer to the floor. My parking brake is also hitting all the way to the floor.

Did I screw up? Am I forgetting something? I only touched the rears.

The very root cause of your unevenly worn pads are the SLIDE PINS. 99% of the time this is the cause. Unless you are dealing with a two-piston calipers such as on front brakes. There are some pretty laughable answers in this thread, but bottom line is 1) You need new pads now AND you need to clean and re-lube the slide pins or you can replace the slide pins and boots. When the slide pins are sticking, they move at different rates relative to each other and this causes one side of the pad to rub harder on the rotor than the other side. I don't understand why you pushed the piston down if all you planned to do is flip the pads around. That was just throwing gasoline on your fire as it gave you additional problems. Don't just throw a new set of pads in and call it a day. You haven't fixed the problem if that is all you do. With new pads and good brake greased slide pins and the caliper re-installed on the vehicle you will find that the brake pedal will go to the floor on the first 2-4 pumps then it will stiffen and rise to its correct height. After that, bleed the brakes properly and carefully take it for a test drive.