pcm problems

[bigjames2586]

Hey guys I'm a new member. I bought a 99 sport from a friend. Anyways they were driving it and it does and threw no codes. So it goes to a dealer friend of thiers, he hooks up and the pcm goes all the way too the start sequence and won't start. Dealer says pcm. What else could be holding this up? I took the origi am apart and no burnt spots or weird smells. I'm curious if the diagnosis was wrong before I go any further. I'm left at 1. get a reprogrammed pcm. have the locksmith reinitalize the pcm and make new keys. 2. Try a immobilizer too disable pats. or 3. buy a pcm that had the pats delete program installed. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[J_C]

I am always suspicious when a dealer suggests a high profit repair like swapping the ECM.

When you try to start it, what does it do? Does it crank well? Does it make good fuel pressure? Does the PATS security light blink rapidly (if it does not, then not likely a PATS problem but that should throw a scan code)?

If you have paid for the dealer service so far then you should be able to demand the evidence that caused their diagnosis. If not, I would check for spark at the coils and fuel pressure next, assuming it cranks well.

You do not need new keys. If you end up needing a replacement ECM, a pull from same year and engine at a junkyard should work. I don't know if it needs to be from a Sport. Anyone know?

Once you have the compatible replacement installed, your existing keys can be programmed just as easily as replacement keys would. A locksmith might be able to do it, a dealer could, or a windows device running forscan app and a bluetooth or wifi OBDII dongle can. This latter option is cheapest but there is a learning curve and info on the Forscan website about it.

Don't know what you mean by "an immobilizer to disable PATS" but there's nothing I'm aware of that would do that. It would need a custom firmware put on that disables PATS and hardly seems worth the bother as it is just extra cost and wasting a feature of your existing keys which as already mentioned, might as well be reused.

If you do have a PATS problem, get the code and look that up, might be the transceiver module around the key cylinder in the steering column.

 

[koda2000]

Please be clear... You say you have a '99 Explorer SOHC V6. Was it running when you bought it? Why did it go to the dealership? Did it stop running while at the dealership?

There are typically only a few reasons a SOHC V6 will not start/run:
1. Bad fuel pump or fuel pump related problem
2. No spark, crank position sensor or wiring related problem
3. Bad cam position sensor (controls fuel delivery timing) engine may run/may not
4. PATS issue (anti-theft light blinking quickly while attempting to start),
PCM will not activate fuel injectors unless chipped key is recognized
5. Timing chains have jumped (engine is probably now toast, bent valves)
6. PCM issue (running a distance 6th)

Beware of dealership not figuring out the actual problem and throwing expense parts/labor at the issue. This can get extremely expensive exceeding the vehicles value and not identifying the real problem while emptying your wallet. Depending on the vehicles condition, number of miles and where you live, a '99 Sport SOHC V6 in good running condition might only have a value of $1,200-$2,000. A non-running '99 SOHC Sport with a jumped timing chain is worth scrap valve.

I do not trust dealerships. They've tried to screw me over many times (unsuccessfully) that's why I do 99% of my own diagnostics and repairs.

There is a "no start procedure" to figure out exactly where the problem is. Not all problems can be identified by simply hooking up your vehicle to a fancy scanner.

How to: - Ford Explorer Engine No Start Procedure

 

[bigjames2586]

I am always suspicious when a dealer suggests a high profit repair like swapping the ECM.

When you try to start it, what does it do? Does it crank well? Does it make good fuel pressure? Does the PATS security light blink rapidly (if it does not, then not likely a PATS problem but that should throw a scan code)?

If you have paid for the dealer service so far then you should be able to demand the evidence that caused their diagnosis. If not, I would check for spark at the coils and fuel pressure next, assuming it cranks well.

You do not need new keys. If you end up needing a replacement ECM, a pull from same year and engine at a junkyard should work. I don't know if it needs to be from a Sport. Anyone know?

Once you have the compatible replacement installed, your existing keys can be programmed just as easily as replacement keys would. A locksmith might be able to do it, a dealer could, or a windows device running forscan app and a bluetooth or wifi OBDII dongle can. This latter option is cheapest but there is a learning curve and info on the Forscan website about it.

Don't know what you mean by "an immobilizer to disable PATS" but there's nothing I'm aware of that would do that. It would need a custom firmware put on that disables PATS and hardly seems worth the bother as it is just extra cost and wasting a feature of your existing keys which as already mentioned, might as well be reused.

If you do have a PATS problem, get the code and look that up, might be the transceiver module around the key cylinder in the steering column.

Ok

Please be clear... You say you have a '99 Explorer SOHC V6. Was it running when you bought it? Why did it go to the dealership? Did it stop running while at the dealership?

There are typically only a few reasons a SOHC V6 will not start/run:
1. Bad fuel pump or fuel pump related problem
2. No spark, crank position sensor or wiring related problem
3. Bad cam position sensor (controls fuel delivery timing) engine may run/may not
4. PATS issue (anti-theft light blinking quickly while attempting to start),
PCM will not activate fuel injectors unless chipped key is recognized
5. Timing chains have jumped (engine is probably now toast, bent valves)
6. PCM issue (running a distance 6th)

Beware of dealership not figuring out the actual problem and throwing expense parts/labor at the issue. This can get extremely expensive exceeding the vehicles value and not identifying the real problem while emptying your wallet. Depending on the vehicles condition, number of miles and where you live, a '99 Sport SOHC V6 in good running condition might only have a value of $1,200-$2000. A non-running '99 SOHC Sport with a jumped timing chain is worth scrap valve.

I do not trust dealerships. They've tried to screw me over many times (unsuccessfully) that's why I do 99% of my own diagnostics and repairs.

There is a "no start procedure" to figure out exactly where the problem is. Not all problems can be identified by simply hooking up your vehicle to a fancy scanner.

How to: - Ford Explorer Engine No Start Procedure

ok sorry guys. let me clarify. I bought this truck from a personal friend.Its in perfect condition 145000 miles. He told me the engine was replaced 30,000 ago just because. The guy is an engineer and money isn't an object so they put a new engine in because it needs timing cabin done so then being rich they slap a brand new crate motor in it drive it 30,000 miles and this happens. it cut off and wont start back.He knows nothing so he has a ford tech friend that brings a big machine with a laptop and hooks it up. btw he says it cranks over and won't fire. relays are good, fuel pump/pressure spark everything. so they took upk too this machine and he can watch it go thru all the functions and it stops at the last 1 which is the last part of the start sequence. so he s says the pcm is no good. so he wasemt trying too make money off my friend here. I haven't done too much too it but am doing my research with it. . So I bought a reprogrammed pcm and that's when I run into the pats issues. I only have 1 original key. My local locksmith told me today they can do the parameter reset on the pcm and make 2 new keys for 125 but guarantee nothing. So I can't decide whether too do that or buy a pats deleted pcm. I guess u send yours and they install a program where they can disable it for good. The only places I have seen for that are 1 guy here for 400ish or on eBay for 125. Any advise fellas

 

[bigjames2586]

And my bad I meant a immobilizer bypass module. It's the part of the remote start that let's the pcm function without a key, so they made a module just got that

I am always suspicious when a dealer suggests a high profit repair like swapping the ECM.

When you try to start it, what does it do? Does it crank well? Does it make good fuel pressure? Does the PATS security light blink rapidly (if it does not, then not likely a PATS problem but that should throw a scan code)?

If you have paid for the dealer service so far then you should be able to demand the evidence that caused their diagnosis. If not, I would check for spark at the coils and fuel pressure next, assuming it cranks well.

You do not need new keys. If you end up needing a replacement ECM, a pull from same year and engine at a junkyard should work. I don't know if it needs to be from a Sport. Anyone know?

Once you have the compatible replacement installed, your existing keys can be programmed just as easily as replacement keys would. A locksmith might be able to do it, a dealer could, or a windows device running forscan app and a bluetooth or wifi OBDII dongle can. This latter option is cheapest but there is a learning curve and info on the Forscan website about it.

Don't know what you mean by "an immobilizer to disable PATS" but there's nothing I'm aware of that would do that. It would need a custom firmware put on that disables PATS and hardly seems worth the bother as it is just extra cost and wasting a feature of your existing keys which as already mentioned, might as well be reused.

If you do have a PATS problem, get the code and look that up, might be the transceiver module around the key cylinder in the steering column.

Sorry jc I meant a immobilizer bypass module. part if a remote start system that let's the vehicle rum without a key or pats really. Not 100% it would work but from what I understand it does

 

[koda2000]

Assuming the problem was the PCM, the key codes are stored in the PCM, so you would have a PATS issue if you've replaced the PCM. You don't have to purchase new/different keys, you just need the PCM to be programmed to recognize the exiting keys. Your Ford dealer can do this. My Ford dealer used to charge $40 to program the keys. The last time I had it done they charged me $65. I don't know why your locksmith wants you to buy new keys (other than to jack up the price). I purchased new PATS keys on Amazon for $10 and have had Ford program the for me.

You could probably use Forscan (free software for a PC/laptop) and an ELM327 dongle and program your PCM yourself for around $25-$30. That would probably be the least expensive way to go,

 

[J_C]

^ Agreed. What I would do is buy at least one more key, off ebay or wherever. It can be cut just about anywhere for a couple bucks since you have one key to go by. Then you have two keys at once you can take to the locksmith or dealership or use Forscan to program them.

Once you have two programmed in and working, you can DIY add additional keys later if you want, does not require Forscan if you have two working keys. Instructions are in the owner's manual.

A remote start system for our vehicles requires that you leave one working key in it, or pull the chip out of that key and leave that chip with it. It does not bypass needing a working key.

There is one other thing I don't recall. Is the EPROM memory chip in those socketed or not? If socketed, you could try just swapping the chip from the old one to the new, making sure you follow safe ESD measures (be earth grounded and have the ECM casing earth grounded). For that matter, it could have two or more EPROMs not just the main one.

 

[koda2000]

You can also have PATS bypassed by having the PCM modified (around $100) but I would not go that route except as a last resort. And yes, you can have a new PATS key cut anywhere for a couple of bucks, but once you have two working "un-cloned" PATS keys you can program up to 3 more yourself (the procedure is in the owner's manual).

@J_C - you might be right about the transferable EPROM. I've seen this with other PCM's. Hope the OP hasn't turned his old PCM in as a core already.

 

[J_C]

My local locksmith told me today they can do the parameter reset on the pcm and make 2 new keys for 125 but guarantee nothing.

This "guarantee nothing" would make me seek a different locksmith. If they can't program the keys, which I would not call a "parameter reset", they are of no use since any place that cuts keys can do that much for cheaper than a locksmith.

I might have done as Koda did if you can find a dealership service department cheap enough, but the issue there is the extra expense to tow it to them (unless the machine to do that is portable and they'll come to you?), so since I have a windows laptop (the version of Forscan that can program keys will only run on Windows) and an ELM327 bluetooth OBDII scan dongle, that is what I would do to program the keys. If I didn't have a laptop but instead a windows PC, I would investigate how far the wifi versions of the OBDII dongles can transmit so I didn't have to lug a PC out to the vehicle, but it wouldn't surprise me if their range is poor.

 

[koda2000]

My laptop runs Windows 10, so not much "lugging" required.

I doubt a dealership would come to you.

 

[bigjames2586]

Ok so the locksmith is the best around and honest. The deal with making new keys is that you have too have the 2 matching keys then you can program up too 6 extras yourself . I can't remember the reason but yeah. it's a retarded process. And the no guarantee waa s that they said we can do all this but we're not guaranteeing that it Wil fix your vehicle. Other people have done this and had other bad pats components so the re initialize and keys weren't thier prob and they don't wanna pay when it doesn't completely fix thier car lol

 

[J_C]

You have one key. You only need one more key to have two to program in. The new key has to be compatible with the vehicle (mechanically the blank has to be the same to cut it right and electronically it has to be for PATS2), but there's no special "matching" that means two new keys that match each other.

I can see a locksmith stating it won't fix your vehicle but that's not the same as "no guarantees". There should be a guarantee that the locksmith completes what you are paying him to do which is program both keys into the ECM.

 

[bigjames2586]

You have one key. You only need one more key to have two to program in. The new key has to be compatible with the vehicle (mechanically the blank has to be the same to cut it right and electronically it has to be for PATS2), but there's no special "matching" that means two new keys that match each other.

I can see a locksmith stating it won't fix your vehicle but that's not the same as "no guarantees". There should be a guarantee that the locksmith completes what you are paying him to do which is program both keys into the ECM.

 

[bigjames2586]

Ok now I get it keywise. But yeah I agree with everything you said 100% and yeah I mean that's how they are too. I guess that's what they were meaning though, Same as what you said. I'm gonna get the work done THIS week and I'll let you guys know what happens. I appreciate the time.