Please Help!!!! Calling Explorer Transmission Experts!

[Glacier991]

I'll be very surprised if you get a rebuilt valve body with Sonnax upgrades for $160. My guess is you will get a clean used valve body... maybe with a Sonnax Boost valve if anything.

 

[Bent Bolt]

I would re-adjust the bands to 1 1/2 turns. Get a pressure gauge and see what PSI you have. The line pressure port is near the range sensor. You need 110 psi in drive. Anything less is not good enough. The shuddering is most likely due to insufficiant "clamping" of the O/D band onto the O/D drum.
Did you get the servo pistons/return springs mixed up when you rebuilt the trans ??

 

[Glacier991]

Welcome to the Board Ben. Your response begets a knowledge base that will benefit everyone. I hope you will continue to chime in and offer your valuable assistance!

(The reversed return spring possibility was never in my wildest imagination....)

 

[ddenton749]

I would re-adjust the bands to 1 1/2 turns. Get a pressure gauge and see what PSI you have. The line pressure port is near the range sensor. You need 110 psi in drive. Anything less is not good enough. The shuddering is most likely due to insufficiant "clamping" of the O/D band onto the O/D drum.
Did you get the servo pistons/return springs mixed up when you rebuilt the trans ??

I'm 100% certain I didn't mix up the servo springs.

I readjusted the bands to 1 1/2 turns last night. No difference.

There is no shudder at all starting out in 1st gear. As soon as it approaches 25 mph, around the time it shifts to 2nd, the shudder starts. It gets worse through 35 mph, around the time it shifts to 3rd. The frequency of the shudder vibration changes as the vehicle speed increases. Today I started feeling the shudder in third gear. It goes away in OD.

There are no unusual noises coming from the trans.

I replaced the valve body tonight. It shifts flawlessly but the shudder is still there.

I tried making the intermediate band 1 1/4 turns - no difference. :thumbdwn:

I guess I really need to check the pressure.

The strange part is that for the first day and a half of driving after the rebuild, it had the weird shift issues but there was no shudder. The shudder didn't start until the morning of the third day.

 

[ddenton749]

I'll be very surprised if you get a rebuilt valve body with Sonnax upgrades for $160. My guess is you will get a clean used valve body... maybe with a Sonnax Boost valve if anything.

The valve body was very clean and it looked as though it had been rebuilt. I think you're right about the boost valve being the only Sonnax.

 

[Glacier991]

The shudder in 2nd is suggestive of an intermediate band issue.... the fact it continues into 3rd negates that possibility. The OD band in the A4LD is used for 4th gear, so that isn't it. I'm curious now...

What seems to be left insofar as friction material shudder is the Torque convertor.... or low pressure in the affected gears causing forward clutch shudder.... I'm very curious about the Torque convertor I admit.... a place where seeing what the trans is doing might help.... knowing when the TCC is commanded, if it coincided with the shudder would clearly implicate the torque convertor clutch.... and speeds are about right.... but then that could also be a pressure issue.

I have never heard of bad sprags shudderring, but then that is a rather esoteric diagnosis...

I think pressure diagnosis is your best friend at this point...

ps. what were you able to discern about the new VB insofar as a rebuild or sonnax upgrades ?

 

[ddenton749]

The shudder in 2nd is suggestive of an intermediate band issue.... the fact it continues into 3rd negates that possibility. The OD band in the A4LD is used for 4th gear, so that isn't it. I'm curious now...

What seems to be left insofar as friction material shudder is the Torque convertor.... or low pressure in the affected gears causing forward clutch shudder....

I have never heard of bad sprags shudderring, but then that is a rather esoteric diagnosis...

I think pressure diagnosis is your best friend at this point...

ps. what were you able to discern about the new VB insofar as a rebuild or sonnax upgrades ?

That's the same line of thinking I'm going with. The other day it was only 2nd gear now it continues into third. I'm beginning to wonder about the forward clutch. Perhaps there is an internal pressure leak? Although wouldn't I get a shudder in 1st gear too if the forward clutch were affected? I will need to test the pressure.

I replaced the torque converter with a rebuilt unit during this rebuild.

I think the VB is a rebuilt unit with a Sonnax boost valve. The new VB shifts fine.

 

[Bent Bolt]

Oops!!! Thought you had a 5R55E. O/D band comes on in 2nd on those beasts. Same for the pressures. A4LD has lower pressures.

Where are the shift points?? 1-2 at 30KPH and 3-4 at 50KPH ( approx ).
Try a stall test in 1st gear. Does it shudder??? Possibly a problem with the sealing rings for the forward clutch.

How does the engine run??? Are you sure that there is not a ignition miss??

 

[Glacier991]

( I constantly assume either a 4R/5R in place of an A4LD or vica versa). Assumptions in hyperspace diagnoses can kill ya.

 

[ddenton749]

Oops!!! Thought you had a 5R55E. O/D band comes on in 2nd on those beasts. Same for the pressures. A4LD has lower pressures.

Where are the shift points?? 1-2 at 30KPH and 3-4 at 50KPH ( approx ).
Try a stall test in 1st gear. Does it shudder??? Possibly a problem with the sealing rings for the forward clutch.

How does the engine run??? Are you sure that there is not a ignition miss??

The shift points are right around those speeds, depending on how hard I accelerate.

I have held the brake and held down the gas in first - no shudder. I've let the engine wind out to 4,000 RPM's in first and no shudder.

The engine runs great. I'm 100% certain it's not a miss.

 

[ddenton749]

Update...

I did a stall test. WOT - 2600 RPM.

There was absolutely no shudder for the 3-5 seconds I held WOT.

Is it possible that the shudder is from something other than a clutch or band? Could it be a bad bearing, center support, or something like that?

 

[ddenton749]

Another Update...

Saturday.

The vibration/shudder is getting worse and is now noticable in OD.

I installed the rebuilt valve body last night. The trans shifts flawlessly. I believe my original OD problem is solved as well.

The OD band is adjusted to 1 1/2 turns. I tried setting the intermediate band at 1 1/4 turns but it made no difference.

There were no metal shavings in the pans to speak of. There was one small pile of shavings in the bottom of the pan about the size of a squashed pea. There were no shavings on the magnet.

The shudder/vibration is still there and it seems to be getting worse. Here's how it acts:

Revving the engine in neutral - no vibration.

While I had the car up on jacks last night I ran it in gear - no vibration.

I put the car in 1, held the brake, and floored the gas for about three seconds - it stalls at 2600 RPM and no vibration.

1st gear. No problems at all.

When the vehicle speed gets to 25 mph the vibration begins. It seems to correspond to the shift to 2nd but I can't say it does all the time. The vibration frequency starts off low and increases as vehicle speed increases.

Prior to yesterday I only felt the vibration/shudder in 2nd gear. Yesterday I began to feel it in third. Today I can now feel it in OD (4th) too.

The vibration is a much higher frequency in OD as the vehicle speed is higher.

The heavier the load (accelerating, pulling a hill, etc.) the more intense the shudder/vibration becomes.

If I let off the gas and coast - no vibration.

If I put it in 2 while driving I get engine braking. No vibration

Under 25 mph it's smooth as silk. 25-35 mph low frequency medium intensity. 35-55 intensity stays the same but frequency increases. 55+ low intensity and high frequency vibration.

I'm really starting to think this has nothing to do with the bands or clutches and maybe it's some internal spinning component out of balance. What do any of you think it could be other than the bands/clutches?

The torque converter is a rebuilt unit that I put in while I had the trans out. If it were the torque converter out of balance wouldn't I feel it in neutral too?

The vibration/shudder didn't start until 2 1/2 days after the rebuild.

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Bent Bolt]

HAve a look at the driveshaft. Make sure it's bolted on tight. If you had the slip yoke off, make sure the u-joints are phased correctly. See if a u-joint is not seized.

Have a look at the front shaft as well. Check if the front hubs are unlocked/are unlocking and the t-case is in 2wd. If you have a neutral position for the transfer case, run the transmission through all the gears and see if you can duplicate the vibration.

 

[ddenton749]

Ok...This is weird...

HAve a look at the driveshaft. Make sure it's bolted on tight. If you had the slip yoke off, make sure the u-joints are phased correctly. See if a u-joint is not seized.

Have a look at the front shaft as well. Check if the front hubs are unlocked/are unlocking and the t-case is in 2wd. If you have a neutral position for the transfer case, run the transmission through all the gears and see if you can duplicate the vibration.

I only unbolted both driveshafts and set them off to the side. i didn't take apart the slip yokes or U-joints. I greased the rear U-joints (through the fittings) before I put it back in.

I don't have a neutral in my transfer case, only 4x4 and Low Range. While I was driving it a few minutes ago I put it in 4WD. The vibration completely changed. The vibration didn't come on until around 40-45 mph and it wasn't nearly as intense. Then, unlike in 2WD, I got vibration when I let off the gas.

What are the odds that a problem in the front hub(s) developed right at this time?

 

[BrooklynBay]

Maybe you have bad wheel bearings, or tires which are not balanced? Are all of your tires the same number?

 

[BrooklynBay]

It might be a little late for this, but I was trying to find a band comparison when I made my other post on the previous page about the double wrap band. Here is the comparison: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1425910&postcount=9

 

[ddenton749]

Maybe you have bad wheel bearings, or tires which are not balanced? Are all of your tires the same number?

I'm going to take a look at the driveshafts and front end today. Wouldn't it be nice if it were that simple?

 

[ddenton749]

It might be a little late for this, but I was trying to find a band comparison when I made my other post on the previous page about the double wrap band. Here is the comparison: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1425910&postcount=9

Thanks, BB. The bands that were in my trans were single wrap and that's what I put back in.

 

[BrooklynBay]

This might be a long shot since you have the same problem with 2 valve bodies. WWW.TransmissionPartsUSA.Com sells this part: 56995A A4LD torque converter clutch anti shudder spring ($2.31). Comes in a bag of 2. Only one is used.

 

[ddenton749]

I really don't think this vibration is from the OD or the torque converter (unless this rebuilt TC is out of balance somehow). If the TC were out of balance I think I would feel it when I rev the engine in neutral.

When the problem first started it was mild and I only felt it in 2nd gear. As it progressed I started to feel it in 3rd, and now in OD too.

There is no shudder/vibration in 1st gear and there was none in the stall test.

It's almost as if it correlates to vehicle speed and load on the transmission. In 2WD it comes on at 25 mph, peaks at 35, and tapers off slightly in third, tapers more in OD, but it's still there. In 4WD it doesn't come on until 40-45 mph and is much less intense than in 2WD.