Put a Torson 4.6L V8 2V on a Gen 4 Explorer

[94Eddie]

I replaced the VVT solenoids when I replaced the valve cover gaskets on each side. The screens in one seemed a little out of whack so I did both as a preventative measure while it was convenient to do so. I probably didn't need to do it at this time. I like replacing minor items when it is convenient to do so as part of another repair. Plus, VVT solenoids are one of the more critical components in the 3V engines. If they fail it can lead to very bad results.

 

[07EddyB]

It seems that the 3V engines are pretty particular in terms of maintenance - as in oil changes. Probably because oil pressure drives the VVT system and tensioning the timing system. We all know that 1) A lot of those engines are out there - and 2)There are a lot of people that just don't change their oil on a reasonable schedule. Statistically, it probably evens out but you only hear about the failures.
I'm at 134K and knock on wood, my timing system and VVT system is in good shape. I've lost a follower - but it was just one out of 24 so it wasn't oil related. And if you ding it because it has rollers - then you have to ding pretty much every engine made now. I also recently owned a Chrysler with a 3.6L that lost 4 followers - that's a oiling problem - not just a bad part.

 

[Justin J]

It seems that the 3V engines are pretty particular in terms of maintenance - as in oil changes. Probably because oil pressure drives the VVT system and tensioning the timing system. We all know that 1) A lot of those engines are out there - and 2)There are a lot of people that just don't change their oil on a reasonable schedule. Statistically, it probably evens out but you only hear about the failures.
I'm at 134K and knock on wood, my timing system and VVT system is in good shape. I've lost a follower - but it was just one out of 24 so it wasn't oil related. And if you ding it because it has rollers - then you have to ding pretty much every engine made now. I also recently owned a Chrysler with a 3.6L that lost 4 followers - that's a oiling problem - not just a bad part.

Well said!

 

[94Eddie]

It seems that the 3V engines are pretty particular in terms of maintenance - as in oil changes. Probably because oil pressure drives the VVT system and tensioning the timing system. We all know that 1) A lot of those engines are out there - and 2)There are a lot of people that just don't change their oil on a reasonable schedule. Statistically, it probably evens out but you only hear about the failures.
I'm at 134K and knock on wood, my timing system and VVT system is in good shape. I've lost a follower - but it was just one out of 24 so it wasn't oil related. And if you ding it because it has rollers - then you have to ding pretty much every engine made now. I also recently owned a Chrysler with a 3.6L that lost 4 followers - that's a oiling problem - not just a bad part.

I have watched several 5.4L 3V tear down videos regarding the oiling issues. Nearly every one I can remember the engine had sludge problems due to long oil change intervals. I am not sure what the differences are between the 5.4L and 4.6L 3V engines but the 4.6L doesn't have nearly the number of oil related failures as the 5.4L. I would bet that there are a fair number of 4.6L 3V engines that don't have timely oil changes but these engines don't seem to have the same high failure rates like the 5.4L engines. I see many, many 2005-2010 Mustang GTs with 150k-200k+ miles on them and they are still running strong. Most of these engines have seen a lot of spirited driving too. Maybe this is due to a Mustang GT owner being more diligent about maintenance. Here on this forum I rarely see posts about a 4.6L 3V having a catastrophic failure or timing chain/guide issues. There is the odd roller follower failure but not much in regard to internal engine part failures, in general. Overall, the 5.4L 3V engines are well designed aside from the small oil passages. The good remanufactured engines have the oil passages enlarged, a higher volume oil pump installed etc. and they are proving to be very reliable. If Ford had done these things from the factory I think the reputation the the 5.4L 3V would be vastly better.

 

[96eb96]

I wonder if a 6.2L could be swapped in a 4th gen Explorer. It is in my new to me F150. It is pretty much a heavy duty 4.6L 2V engine with VVT only. 411HP. Rare F150 option, but you can get it today in a '23 F250 or 350.
Uses the 6R80 trans. Dimensions look close. The 4.6L 3V/6R80 was a drop in powertrain in some F150s.

 

[96eb96]

I have watched several 5.4L 3V tear down videos regarding the oiling issues. Nearly every one I can remember the engine had sludge problems due to long oil change intervals. I am not sure what the differences are between the 5.4L and 4.6L 3V engines but the 4.6L doesn't have nearly the number of oil related failures as the 5.4L. I would bet that there are a fair number of 4.6L 3V engines that don't have timely oil changes but these engines don't seem to have the same high failure rates like the 5.4L engines. I see many, many 2005-2010 Mustang GTs with 150k-200k+ miles on them and they are still running strong. Most of these engines have seen a lot of spirited driving too. Maybe this is due to a Mustang GT owner being more diligent about maintenance. Here on this forum I rarely see posts about a 4.6L 3V having a catastrophic failure or timing chain/guide issues. There is the odd roller follower failure but not much in regard to internal engine part failures, in general. Overall, the 5.4L 3V engines are well designed aside from the small oil passages. The good remanufactured engines have the oil passages enlarged, a higher volume oil pump installed etc. and they are proving to be very reliable. If Ford had done these things from the factory I think the reputation the the 5.4L 3V would be vastly better.

F150s are also used for towing at near capacity, which is very severe. The OCI would be 3K max. Mustang guys race but they are usually car care nuts too who over maintain it.

 

[94Eddie]

I wonder if a 6.2L could be swapped in a 4th gen Explorer. It is in my new to me F150. It is pretty much a heavy duty 4.6L 2V engine with VVT only. 411HP. Rare F150 option, but you can get it today in a '23 F250 or 350.
Uses the 6R80 trans. Dimensions look close. The 4.6L 3V/6R80 was a drop in powertrain in some F150s.

The increased deck height of the 6.2L might make it too wide and too tall for the 4th gen engine bay. It is a tight fit height and width wise for the 4.6L in both dimensions.

 

[newmantjn]

A long time ago, we (I used to work for Ford transmission) put a 4.6L 2V into an Explorer for one of the first 6R mules, as a precursor to the 2006 V8 U251. There was a lot of calibration work to get it going. Additionally, the CAN network needed to be figured out. At this point, we used a ZF transmission for the mules. You might recall that this and the first few years of 6R60s had a TCM in the bottom pan that communicated to the PCM/ECM via CAN. The other option would be to run a later PCM with a 6R80 and the OWC (instead of the fully synchronous TCM version). I'm not sure where you would come up with the proper cal for an older V8 with a newer transmission, but maybe they are out there. I'm also not sure how this combo would interface with other subsystems, like cruise, antitheft, brakes etc. So you would need to think about that long and hard.

 

[Argentimage]

cam phaser is the only real issue im aware of

The hybrid versions of the Maverick and Explorer/Aviator etc. are the only ones I would consider buying. Even then you have the complexities of a hybrid system and the eventual expensive battery replacement. Plus, the hybrids have all the other complicated electronics as the other models that will be hella expensive to repair outside of having a warranty. It is still hard to beat a N/A 4/6/8 cylinder engine for reliability and longevity. Toyota and Honda have a long track record of making well engineered vehicles for the most part. If I am rolling the dice on buying a new vehicle they would be the automakers of choice for me. For the foreseeable future I will be driving my dinosaur circa 2010 SUV with its chassis on frame, V8 engine (that is oriented the right way), unsophisticated drive train and suspension. For me, driving it is like wearing a pair of old jeans.

the new ones are all junk, designed for parts replacements after 60-100k miles, just like their small cars. Not to speak of battery packs that will cost more than the car is worth. And 94Eddie is spot on if you want newer, the 4runner is where the Explorer left off in 2010

 

[94Eddie]

the new ones are all junk, designed for parts replacements after 60-100k miles, just like their small cars. Not to speak of battery packs that will cost more than the car is worth. And 94Eddie is spot on if you want newer, the 4runner is where the Explorer left off in 2010

I think the way gas powered vehicles are going electric ones will be a much better choice if they can work out the problems of battery charge times, battery cost and having enough charging stations that can deliver the current needed for the fast charge times. The latter problem is the big hurdle for adopting electric cars. This means a complete re-engineering of the electric grid and power generation systems worldwide. If these items are solved then I think electric vehicles will be far and away more reliable than gas powered ones. There is just so much less that can go wrong with them if they are well engineered.

 

[newmantjn]

Biggest downside to the plug in hybrids is you are basically buying two powertrains, an electric one and a ICE one. Extra stuff to go wrong. Also, the PHEV U625 does not have much range on electric only. But, you do get the hybrid fuel economy all the time, as well as no range anxiety

 

[Justin J]

Ok

A long time ago, we (I used to work for Ford transmission) put a 4.6L 2V into an Explorer for one of the first 6R mules, as a precursor to the 2006 V8 U251. There was a lot of calibration work to get it going. Additionally, the CAN network needed to be figured out. At this point, we used a ZF transmission for the mules. You might recall that this and the first few years of 6R60s had a TCM in the bottom pan that communicated to the PCM/ECM via CAN. The other option would be to run a later PCM with a 6R80 and the OWC (instead of the fully synchronous TCM version). I'm not sure where you would come up with the proper cal for an older V8 with a newer transmission, but maybe they are out there. I'm also not sure how this combo would interface with other subsystems, like cruise, antitheft, brakes etc. So you would need to think about that long and hard.

Thanks! This swap seems very challenging! Thanks for your information!

 

[Mando Adrenalin]

Has anyone tried putting a Torson 4.6L V8 2V from Gen 3 onto a Gen 4 Ford Explorer? Together with the 6R transmission, the combination would create a decent Ford Explorer!

I have a 4.6L V8 3V in my 2010 explorer sport Trac Adrenalin.

 

[D Hook]

Would love to see more pictures of the sport trac.
Guess it's true what they say about Texas!

 

[Justin J]

How reliable is the 6R80 transmission? YouTube has some rebuild videos of this transmission, not as many as 5R55 though.

Seems Ford Explorer uses the 1st generation of this transmission, in which the TCM and The lead frame are bundled together, costing a fortune to replace it; Since 2011, Ford changed the design and decoupled them.

Another popular issue is the Torque Converter, which seems to fail a lot.

Any ideas?

 

[boominXplorer]

All 6r80s have the TCM located in the transmission I believe. They are all very similar with slight differences in the housings between engine configuration. They all need to be reprogrammed if replaced.

 

[94Eddie]

How reliable is the 6R80 transmission? YouTube has some rebuild videos of this transmission, not as many as 5R55 though.

Seems Ford Explorer uses the 1st generation of this transmission, in which the valve body and sinouid box are bundled together, costing a fortune to replace it; Since 2011, Ford changed the design and decoupled them.

Any ideas?

It is very reliable when maintained well by doing 40k-60k mile fluid drains and refills. Ford's recommended 150k mile service interval is absurd for any transmission. Below is a video on servicing the 6R80 and a few of its weak areas are pointed out. Even these aren't all that common if the transmission is serviced properly. There are very few posts here in the 4th gen forum regarding the 6R60/80 transmissions having major issues.

 

[Justin J]

This is the TC issue:

 

[Bazz270]

Well it is very rare issue on good maintained vehicles.
The 6R series based on the ZF super reliable transmissions.

 

[Bazz270]

All 6r80s have the TCM located in the transmission I believe. They are all very similar with slight differences in the housings between engine configuration. They all need to be reprogrammed if replaced.

The TCM located in the transmission pan.easy to rebuild and to replace but no any reason to touch it until first 300000 miles reached

The tritons and the 6R tranmissions are one of the best Ford's powertrains.

The french 5R trans seems to be the worst transmission ford ever used.