Rear toe link questions HELP PLEASE

[mountaineer2004]

My tire shop has a visible chart with different lug nut torque(s) for different vehicles.
For our generation Explorer it says 100 ft/lbs. Most vehicles are less.

 

[imp]

This is off topic (more or less) to the OP, but in Ford's 2004 Explorer Owner's Manual (3rd printing)--available online--at page 206, under "Roadside Emergencies," it specifies a torque of 100 ft lbs for wheel lugs. This recommendation appears to persist through the remaining Gen 3 and Gen 4 years. (I did not see a torque specification for earlier years.) For '04, see: 2004 Ford Explorer Owner Manuals & Warranties | Official Ford Owner Site .

I've always used 100 ft lbs, find this to be very tight, and would not use anything more. Not sure where HilmBrian got the 105 ft lb spec, but it was not from the (online) Ford Explorer Owner's Manual. That makes his post kinda ironic, actually.

@Drewmcg
Thing about torque/tension relationship is that it's kinda tricky. The bolt (or stud) tension achieved depends on thread condition, whether dry or lubricated, thread pitch. Fine-thread series threads are actually stronger than coarse thread. Note Ford's 1/2-20 is a Fine Thread pitch. Publication of recommended torque levels often specify lubricated or not. And it's a CYA thing also: recommend torque levels way up near expected failure levels must not be published.

I'm sorry I started this whole thing! imp

 

[Drewmcg]

Imp, So you torque ur 'sploder lugs to 90-95 ft-lbs dry?

 

[imp]

Imp, So you torque ur 'sploder lugs to 90-95 ft-lbs dry?

@Drewmcg
No, I never tighten hardly any bolt anywhere dry. Reason is, dry threads can exhibit worse bad things, like "stick-slip" where the friction between things rubbing together fails, allowing sudden, easy movement, then abruptly "sticks" again. Also, strain gage work I did in the lab showed more consistent bolt loads with lubricated threads.

Ever get a flat tire, and find lug nuts that had not been touched for a very long time, and you could barely break them loose? Another good reason for gobbing a bit of grease on the studs with a fingertip. Too much: heat and centrifugal force throws oily juice out onto brake surfaces, drum or disk.

I believe in 90 ft-lbs. for my 1/2-20 wheel lugs, have driven Fords for 60 years now, never had a wheel come loose. A word of caution: Ford (and others) recommends re-torquing wheel lugs after installation and driving for some time, especially with alloy wheels being used for the first time. The soft alloy tends to "mush-out" a bit under load, which causes loss of bolt tension. This goes for any beveled seat type lugnut, but is less important with the type of nuts Ford began using with the metric wheels, 1997 I think on F-150, where centering was accomplished by straigh-shank extensions on the nuts which close-fitted a straight hole in the wheel. Dunno if any other than F-Series used those. imp

 

[Drewmcg]

Hmmm. I see your logic. I was raised in Detroit in a family with 8 boys, most of whom worked on cars at one time or another. I always learned not to put any lubricant on wheel lugs. I think the logic was that lubricant might make the lug more likely to eventually loosen itself at any given torque, what with the constant rotation of the wheels, road vibrations and impacts, etc.

My dad was an engineer, but an electrical engineer. Several brother are engineers as well (including mechanical). I've never explored this topic in any depth with them, however.

I have experienced the hard-to-break-torque-on-wheel-lugs-that-have-not-been-touched-in-a-long-time phenomenon that you mention. In fact, my son had a flat on my Volvo not too long ago and claimed he could not get the lugs off with the ****ty tool supplied by them. (Personally, I've never not been able to get them off. I think lack of confidence and experience was a large part of my son's problem.)

I'm not quite convinced that this is such a bad thing, however. Consider this: if the lugs were torqued "correctly" in the first place (whatever that means, which we are discussing), then the bonding or corrosion or whatever that takes place in the threads over time is *not* adding to the load (not sure that's the right word) or torque on the thread. It "just" making it harder to unscrew the lug nut. And if the two things we're trying most to accomplish are (i) not damage the lug by over-torquing, thereby causing the lug to break off (which I have seen on cars more than once); and (ii) keep the wheel lug nuts from backing off and becoming loose, causing all sorts of trouble, then the hard-to-get--lugnut-off "problem" does not violate either of those priorities, and in fact helps one of them (working against loosening).

Of course, you gotta be able to get the wheel off in a roadside emergency. So I stuck one of those cross/X type wheel lug wrenches in the trunk and all is good.

Final question: could the OEMs perhaps have contemplated the dry-torque-problems you mentioned by choice of lug/nut alloy or coating? In other words, it seems like it would be at least possible to spec say a chrome or other surface coating--or maybe some composition of the material used to fabricate the lug or the nut itself--so as to avoid the problems you mention without using a lubricant (e.g., grease) that might diminish the fastener's long term performance, non?

 

[Drewmcg]

Wow--I just found this after posting the above (see: It's Really All About Lug Nuts - Tire Review Magazine ):

"Manufacturers, engineers and other industry experts seem to unanimously oppose using lubrication. On the other hand, some customers, DIYers and self-appointed Internet forum experts claim to have used thread lube since the very dawn of time with nary a problem.

My own opinion is more nuanced. I disapprove of lubricating threads in general, unless they are badly rusted. Most lug bolts and lug studs are coated with a substance intended to prevent rust, but certain makes and models seem to be much more vulnerable to rust than others (I’m looking at you, Volvo)."
​

Maybe a little WD-40 on the Volvo lugs wouldn't be such a bad thing . . . .

 

[02_XLT]

Replacing mine as of now. I ordered the correct ones for my truck, but the outer where too big to go into the knuckle. Ended up drilling the knuckle to fit.