Replacing Main brake line

[hasoan]

You have a roll of line? What are you using exactly?

AGS Poly Armour steel brake line 3/16" I hope that is not a problem.
Not really a roll, like a spool, just coiled a few times and should be easy to get shaped for the most part.

I don't know if it will prove difficult to try to route the whole thing then bend it into place, but that was the general plan. which is why i am going to run a wire first and see how that goes. (of course wire is more flexible)

 

[Cobraguy]

I am not familiar with that product, so I have no reason to doubt it is a good product. But when you said "roll", I had visions of a copper roll of tube...

 

[96eb96]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but creating a new one asking the same question seemed silly too.

I have consulted this and a few other threads, and got ready to change the ABS to rear line like this thread instructs (96eb96) but I am a little confused.

On my 96, There don't appear to be any unions in the original line, but 96eb96 talks about finding them... does that just mean that only the NEW line has to have unions, and I'll find out where to put them once I route the line?

I may have deviated from the instructions already because i just bought a 25' coil of line, not individual sections. but i have the flaring tool so that just means more of that i guess.

The original lines have no unions.

I debated between using the coil (which I used on many other cars) vs the line. Because the lengths worked out and there were some tricky bends I decided to use shorter lengths and join together.

Either way is fine, as long as you double flare and use the right fittings and unions. I've seen cars with unions from the factory.

AGS polyarmour is a very good product BTW. You can bend it by hand or with a socket, soup can, etc.

Good Luck!

 

[hasoan]

Well, I'll try to contribute to this already great thread. IKm not done yet, but as of today I have replaced the rear axle line and have the front to rear line mostly in place.

I actually put one flare on the coil, then straightened the entire coil out. I fed it front to back without too much trouble. (in hindsight, might have been better going in from the back - see below) Once I had the line in, I started bending and snapping into place from the rear forward (because I have extra line in the front and want to make sure the rear stays put.) I unbolted the exhaust shield at the rear of the engine because I want to be thorough and make sure the line isn't exposed to the hot exhaust.

I have one more retaining clip to snap into place there but I called it a day. Tomorrow should go easier than today. I need to revisit some fittings for tightening ( I choose to start on the loose side and adjust if leaks are there so I don't have to make new flares)

anyway, thanks to 96 for your tutorial!

UPDATE: the engine compartment was a bit tricky because i had the line going in under some pipes by mistake, so I had to shorten and carefully bend the end of the line into a more acceptable position. Because I used one continuous line, did it last, and couldn't feed the line as needed, I couldn't put a coil in the line but i think it will be ok because there is a decent amount of slack. (the messier alternative would have had brake line running all over the place under the hood, but might also have been ok. ) If you use the 3 piece method this part is probably a lot easier. I'm just adding this in case anyone tries it the way i did.

 

[russosborne]

Hi.
I have a 97 4wd Ex and need to do this. I just looked up the AGS stuff online at Autozone and a 25 ft roll of 3/16 tubing is under $20. Makes this much more affordable than I had thought. I actually had the truck for sale on Craigslist last weekend thinking I couldn't afford to do this. oops.

Couple of questions though. Will a cheap HF type double flaring tool really work ok on this stuff? I know they aren't recommended for normal steel tubing, but I am pretty broke right now for this sort of stuff. But I am putting way too many miles on our "good" car since this is down.

Fitting size? 10mm? Yeah, I know. Take the old with me. But I am hoping someone can verify the size here so I can order online. Also, I really don't want to have to get under the truck more times than absolutely necessary. Getting too old for that to be fun anymore.

Fittings in general? Can/should you use a "normal" steel tubing fitting with this stuff?

Thanks,
Russ

 

[hasoan]

I don't know if you already figured it out, but IIRC the fittings are 8/32 (EDIT: they're not. they are 3/8" - 24 thread)... or you might be right about 10mm (EDIT: but no, you're probably not)... I have a spare one here I can take to home depot and check also, whatever fittings their prefab 6 ft ags lines have on them is correct.

As for the flaring tool, I am not sure what hf is but the one I bought had to be clamped well beyond finger tight to work properly. I used pliers to turn the wing nuts. Be judicious, as they will break at some point. And practice before starting. I made like 12 bad flares before I started to figure it out. Sorry I couldn't help more

EDITS: just for clarity for anyone reading this.

 

[russosborne]

Thanks.
Funny you just replied, I was just telling my wife I would start on this this weekend.
I'm going to go ahead and just take the old off and get the fittings. I just dread what else I may find while I am under there.
Heck, I don't even know if I have disk or drums in the rear.
Russ

 

[hasoan]

I checked to fitting I have and its a 3/8" - 24. I don't know if the 97 is the same, and you probably have to reuse the fitting on the ABS / proportioning valve, If you are doing that part.

 

[russosborne]

thanks.
I got the rear axle line replaced today, which was a definite leaker. (Oh, I used a preflared 51 inch line. I have a cheap pep boys flaring tool and it sounds like yours, finger tight wasn't enough and I didn't have the patience to deal with it today, so I went and bought the preflared stuff. I'll save the flaring for later)

Started yesterday. Tires didn't want to come off. So I gave up until this afternoon. I ended up doing it with them on, and of course they came off once I was done for the day. Lots and lots of PB Blaster. Need to use some anti seize when I reinstall them I think. I never would have gotten one off if I had a flat on the side of the road.Need to replace the brakes at some point also. Again, lots of rust. Truck's been parked almost a full year.

I was looking at the main line running up to the front. Not sure which one it is at the abs box. I had forgotten all about having that. Looks like that will be a pain. Is the line covered in that hose all the way back to the rear?If so do I need to reuse that or am I ok with just the bare line? Or am I completely looking at the wrong lines? Need to find my Haynes manual I suppose. Any chance the line goes somewhere else between the abs and the rear end?(just reread this whole thread, doesn't look like it).

I am tempted to just leave it and drive it the way it is, but that rear line was so scary rusted, I can't imagine the longer one will be any better. Couldn't really tell with that hose covering on it though. good thing is I don't have to have the truck back on the road immediately, so I have time to get frustrated, walk away, and come back.

And a note for the stupid(me). The front wheels will drive the car even with the back tires off the ground when you have a 4wheel drive car with the selector switch in auto. I almost made a big oops.

Thanks,
Russ

 

[hasoan]

I think you are referring to the coiled protective tube around the line. If so, I didn't replace that. For longevity, yeah maybe you should, but in my own case I believe the new lines will outlast almost everything else on the truck at this point so I'm not worried about it.

In my case, the leak was on the rear axle line, but just from fiddling with things I made a new leak in the front to rear line (because it was also quite rusted)

I'll say this: with new lines, catastrophic failure is way less likely. If you just have a loose fitting or something, you can find that as long as you keep an eye on things. That's much better than the sudden "zero brakes" that I encountered once in this whole ordeal.

 

[hasoan]

And on a side note, you can theoretically run a new front to rear line using the spare brackets before you disconnect the old one. I was going to do that but as I said, I inadvertantly cracked the old line in the process.

I had already had a shop replace my front lines before, so it was obvious for me which line went to the rear. It goes down under a heat shield on the drivers side if the vehicle so I think you can figure it out.

 

[Goldmaster]

Not really anything new to add to this thread, but I did this job yesterday on my 98 Explorer AWD 5.0. I developed a leak in the rear line over the axle shortly after I purchased it. I also did the main line from the ABS pump back as preventative maintenance. The main line wasn't leaking, but looked pretty rough. I also replaced the rear caliper hoses. I picked up everything at Autozone:

1 -25 FT roll of 3/16 Polyarmour brake tubing $19.99

1 - 51 inch 3/16 Polyarmour double flared line $5.99

1 - 3/16 Tube nut (used on roll of tubing for rear caliper hose connection) $2.99

Rear Brake Caliper hoses (Brakeware brand)
Driver side 78330 - $19.99
Passenger side 78738 - $11.99

1-32oz can of Dot 3 brake fluid (Autozone house brand) $6.59

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Going from memory, the tools I used were:

11mm flare wrench for rear brake line nuts @ at all rear brake hose connections.

16mm wrench to hold driver rear caliper hose while unbolting the main rear line

Hammer/long flat screw driver to knock c-clip off the brake hose at the bracket

10mm socket/12" extension to remove the caliper hose bracket bolts

14mm socket for rear brake hose bolts to calipers

15mm line wrench at ABS box for rear line

Double flaring tool kit

3/8 box end wrench to open bleeders

I small oxy/acetylene torch setup (*see note below)

The aftermarket lines used 3/8 tube nuts. So I used a 3/8 flare wrench when reassembling.


I started at the rear where the original line comes out of the frame and attaches to the rear caliper hose. I fed the roll of line through the frame up to the engine compartment, following the path of the existing line. As already mentioned, there are clips with open slots to snap in the new line. I just left the old line in place.

You have to re-use the old fitting that attaches at the ABS box. I cut the fitting off the old line and used it on my new line. I used a double flaring tool from Autozone to make the new flare. You will want to practice on a spare piece of line if you have never made a flare before. It will take at least a few times to feel confident you can make a good flare on your line that you are installing. Don't forget to put the fitting on the line first before you make the flare, otherwise you will be doing again (I know I'm not the only one who forgets to do that part sometimes . As suggested in this thread, I made a couple of coils in the line before it attaches to the ABS box. For the rear connection, if using a roll of line like me, you will also have to flare the rear of the line to connect to your caliper hose. That's where the extra tube nut I purchased comes into play.

Replacing the rear caliper hoses should be pretty straight-forward. unbolt the hoses at the calipers, the two hose bracket bolts, remove the c-clip on the driver side hose, unbolt the brake lines if not replacing the metal lines. use a 16mm wrench to hold the driver brake hose while unbolting the main rear brake line. I just cut all my lines to save time, since they were rotten at getting replaced anyway.

*Note I had to heat the bleeder screws up with a small oxy/acetylene torch to loosen bleeder screws. Did not want to take a chance of snapping them off, since they were pretty seized up in there due to spending it's entire life here in Michigan. Got the bleeders glowing red and they turned out with no problems. Be extremely careful with heat if you use it though. Too much will damage your calipers, also note that you are working near the gas tank, so don't set anything on fire or blow yourself up lol.

Once you have everything installed, thoroughly bleed the brake system. Check all your connections for leaks over the next few days to make sure nothing springs up. Also ensure that none of the new lines are rubbing against anything or loose and rattling around.

All in all, it was a fairly simple project to do. Good luck!

 

[dads2vette]

What about bleeding the abs block? I heard(read) that you needed an expensive tool to properly bleed that.

 

[Goldmaster]

What about bleeding the abs block? I heard(read) that you needed an expensive tool to properly bleed that.

I had no issues just bleeding at the calipers. But I didn't let the master cylinder run dry. If you lost all your fluid and pushed air through the whole system, then you might need to do something special for the ABS pump.

 

[dads2vette]

Did my brakes a couple weeks ago and forgot about posting. I can't believe how much easier it was to use the polyarmour brake line. I wish I could have gotten this stuff way back when I was redoing camaros! Much easier to bend and much much easier to put a flare in. New brake line popped right into the clips, coiled in the engine compartment, used the ABS coupling (thanks for reminding me to keep it) bleeding was easy as well.


Thanks for all the advice!

 

[koda2000]

i realize this is an old thread, but NEVER use compression fittings on brake lines. it even tells you this on the back if the package. unions are fine. anyone who tells you it's okay to use compression fittings is dead wrong. brake line is cheap. replace it and always double flare your ends or they'll crack and leak.

 

[russosborne]

Well, still procrastinating on the front to rear line. I should go ahead and do it, but my rear brakes are so bad I shouldn't drive it without replacing at least the rotors and pads. Figure if I do the line I might be tempted to drive it. Trucks been on jackstands for like 2 months now. :-(
I am also hoping to get a better flaring tool first. I realised recently it has been 36 years since I have flared any lines.
The real problem though is that I have a 1970 Pontiac Lemans project car that I am spending all my money on. Since I don't have a lot of money to begin with that makes it hard. But I need to get back to the Explorer.
Russ

 

[JimMadsen]

If you are just doing the rear line, get a preflared one. 51" should do it, and replace the rotors pads hoses and calipers all at once.

 

[tigertail222]

Thanks for this great post. It answered all my questions about changing the front to rear brake line on my 97 Explorer. When it rains it pours, I just did the right side line as I noticed it was starting to weep. Got everything in order and the next thing I know I am loosing brake fluid again! Found the wet spot and here we go again. Thanks again.
Cheers,
Mike

 

[prayforsurf0]

Reviving an old thread so as not to start a new one.

I've kept this thread saved in my bookmarks knowing that I really should get to this job. I already replaced the rear brake line that goes from the rear drivers side to the rear passenger side when I noticed my brakes getting soft one day and found a little pin hole in that line. I bought the 25" coiled roll and a decent double flaring kit and managed to get the job done

It was a while ago so I can't remember exactly, but I think I reused the fittings that hold the flared ends in the female seat where the line turns to hose. What are those fittings called ? I want to get a few in case I ruin one while removing.

Besides the brake line, double flaring tool, and some standard tools, are there any other pieces i will need for this project ? I dont think I will need a union because I have the coiled line and will run a straight shot back. But what about those little fitting that hold the flared ends of the brake lines in the ABS Box under the hood ? Are those something else that I need a few extras of, or should I be careful in removing and just reuse the old ones ? Thanks guys