So why can't we get a diesel car in the states?

[leebo]

Here's a short little article that I found kinda interesting that further makes me want to move oversea's. I've always said they've got the coolest cars. While in my mind E-85 is going to be a MAJOR bust in under 10 years costing us a TON of money not just in higher gas prices, but also higher food prices not to mention the environmental damage it's doing....hydrogen has yet to come into it's own yet, and people have showed that they're just not really ready to make their own gas yet, we still don't really have a powerful diesel car here in the states. I know they made the golf a few years ago, but I can't really think of any other off the top of my head.

http://www.technoride.com/2008/03/bmw_diesel_beats_prius_in_econ.php

 

[Stic-o]

that and Diesel is $4.17 around the corner .vs Regular gas at $3.57 now

 

[briwayjones]

There's the VW TDI which is diesel. They have figured out how to produce both Ethanol and Hydrogen using bacteria. Good for Ethanol because you don't have to use corn and good for hydrogen because it doesn't require a lot of energy. I think hydrogen will be the way to go. GM is working on having a hydrogen plant open in the next few years.

 

[Dannyboy]

Mercedes E320 cdi, it's a sweet car, gets 38-42 mpg for a nice size luxury sedan. Only issue is that they were all $35-40K for a '05 when I bought my mercedes last year. It's a quiet motor too.

Also Jeep Liberty had a few little diesels out there, but they may have been discontinued.

 

[Stic-o]

Also Jeep Liberty had a few little diesels out there, but they may have been discontinued.

because nobody bought them! and when the finally released them, diesel went through the roof.

 

[Dannyboy]

this is true, that sucks for them. When I started driving diesels in the end of '03 and even in '04 diesel fuel with $1.75 or less. This $4 gallon crap has me thinking about riding my beach cruiser to work.

 

[dogfriend]

The problem with diesel (besides the current price) is that the NOx emissions are very high. NOx production is related to combustion temp, so if you reduce the NOx, you reduce the efficiency also. Europe is currenly more lenient than the US with respect to NOx.

But, if you have ever been in the LA basin in the summer (or San Jose or Sacramento), you will see why they need to control NOx. Its the stuff that makes the air turn brown.

 

[dlk]

One reason diesel is so expensive is they switched to low sulphur. It's 3.999 here right now, and when they switch to summer fuel in the spring it usually goes up, so it'll soon be over $4 here. I'm glad I don't need any, $3.199/gal gas is bad enough!

 

[MountaineerGreen]

I had a Popular Mechanics where they tested a turbo Diesel VW, with a 5 speed, it got 70 MPG and outran many other cars while doing so. Unfortunately, that was a part of my "reading room" material, it has since been thrown away.

EDIT: Link

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237945.html

 

[briwayjones]

I know someone with a Diesel VW and an automatic getting 50MPG on the road.

 

[bisjoe]

Diesel also comes from the same crude oil products as home heating oil used in much of the country so in winter there's less available and the price goes up.

 

[dogfriend]

I know someone with a Diesel VW and an automatic getting 50MPG on the road.

I know someone with a Prius that gets 50 mpg on the road and in town. :

 

[redneck21]

Honda is going to have an accored that gets 50+ MPG and is just a Diesel.

 

[Gator Jeff]

The problem with diesel (besides the current price) is that the NOx emissions are very high. NOx production is related to combustion temp, so if you reduce the NOx, you reduce the efficiency also. Europe is currenly more lenient than the US with respect to NOx.

But, if you have ever been in the LA basin in the summer (or San Jose or Sacramento), you will see why they need to control NOx. Its the stuff that makes the air turn brown.

Isn't that what the urea injection is supposed to lessen? There was a thread a while back about the F-series Diesels having urea injection in a year or so.

 

[dogfriend]

Isn't that what the urea injection is supposed to lessen? There was a thread a while back about the F-series Diesels having urea injection in a year or so.

Yes, the urea injection is supposed to help convert the NOx to other compounds. My understanding is that even with the urea injection, the level of NOx will still be higher than what can be achieved with a gas engine. Also, they have had a problem with getting CARB (Ca Air Resources Board) to accept the urea injection system because they require regular maintenance to maintain their effectiveness. CARB assumes that the average mouth breathing drivers won't refill the urea when they are supposed to.

 

[Gator Jeff]

Yes, the urea injection is supposed to help convert the NOx to other compounds. My understanding is that even with the urea injection, the level of NOx will still be higher than what can be achieved with a gas engine. Also, they have had a problem with getting CARB (Ca Air Resources Board) to accept the urea injection system because they require regular maintenance to maintain their effectiveness. CARB assumes that the average mouth breathing drivers won't refill the urea when they are supposed to.

That's a shame that the urea injection can't get it all. I definitely can't blame CARB either. It's frightening just thinking about how most people don't maintain the second biggest purchase they'll ever make. We could actually have more efficient cars right off the lot if it weren't for the large tolerances that the manufacturers have to build in to the cars to keep them running in the hands of said mouth breathers.

If had my own house, I'd be really interested in the NGV Civic http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/ that Honda is making. You just get a filling station installed in the garage that's attached to your natural gas line and just fill up each evening. I'm curious to know what the cost per mile is compared to a normal Civic.

 

[dogfriend]

According to the EPA, the CNG Civic is slightly cheaper for fuel cost than a Prius. The emissions are about the same for both, with the Prius having a slight advantage for CO2 reduction because it uses less fuel (but gas$ > CNG$).

I have seen one or two of these driving around. I think there are more in So Cal. than Nor Cal.


http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Index.do

 

[dogfriend]

Here are some diesel vehicles from the same site. I had to put in AZ as the state; CA doesn't allow the MB or VW.

NOx for the MB Bluetec is 10x higher than for the CNG Civic or the Prius.

 

[briwayjones]

I know someone with a Prius that gets 50 mpg on the road and in town. :

That same Prius doesn't do that well on the road though.:

 

[Willard]

Holy Crap! Anybody happen to check out the specs on the motor in that Touareg? 310 HP and 553 ft.lbs. of torque! Why such a huge motor in it? That thing would tow like a beast!