Steering - 1 ton GM tre's v.s. Heims

I have seen people use the GM 1 ton tre's and others use the Heims. What are peoples experiences with either set up? Is there advantages either way? I am looking at what set up to run on my soon to be SAS swap.

 

[DB_1]

Just for future reference, i have the goodson reamer and its done at least 10 different rigs... ive shipped it across country as a loaner and got it shipped back. No idea how my friends have used it i only asked that they use alot of cutting oil.

Ive used it both in a drill press and with a hand drill. Its still as sharp as the day i bought it.

I had the same reamer, I think I got it from BC Bronco's years ago. I sold it last year and only did 3 holes with it but it was still very sharp. I always used cutting fluid as well.

I have since gone to heims when I did my crossover steering, those were fun holes to drill out.

 

[turboexplorer]

Got all my steering today. I really hope they fit in my rim, I have a 17x9 with 5" of backspacing. So back side of rim should be almost even with the hole in the knuckle so clearance will be really close. Anyone else running a 5" backspacing?

 

[turboexplorer]

Here are the clearance Pics I ended up with the perfect amount of room. These steering components are HUGE! Makes the pitman arm on the steering box look tiny. Shouldn't be able to break any of it. I have 1.5" .250 wall DOM tubing that connects all parts.

 

[gmanpaint]

Plenty of room! What was the worry about? :

So the DOM that came with that set up, how much length do you need to cut off?

 

[turboexplorer]

Should have to cut off about 2-4" for the drag link. Not sure on steering link since I don't have the steering box in and truck in the air. Also roughly with toe set it is 54 1/2" form center of steering hole in knuckle to the other. It wouldn't be long enough if it didn't have that real long right tie rod end for the T-Link steering.

The worry was that the wheel sits over the steering knuckle. Those pics I guess don't do it justice. There is plenty of room. But I also though that with a 5" backspacing that it was measured to where the bead of the tire sits. When in all reality it is measured from mounting flange to the VERY outermost edge of the rim. Which on any rim is 1/4-1/2" out further than where the bead of the tire sits. Hence why there is a little more room than I expected.

Here is a picture that you can better see that the tie rod ends do sit fully inside the tire if you look at it from the sidewall straight down you can't see ANY of the tie rod ball joint. All you can see is the threads where the DOM will be. See you can barely see the ball joint of the tie rod now if you where to walk a little to the left and look at the tire straight on you wouldn't see it at all. It is tucked in there good.

Here is the normal tie rod end laying on a 2X4. Nice and stout!

 

[Stang5lgt]

Sweet! I went with heims on the Merc 15k miles on them no squeaks and no rust. I made sure to get Kevlar coated ones. Putting the same setup on my wife's TJ. And I have built 10 other heim set ups for Jeeps. The ones that squeak normally have cheap heim joints. My Super Duty eats through TRE every couple years with 37s I wanna upgrade it to heim this year sometime it is due for some again TRE are so sloppy. Truck kinda goes were it wants to right now I just try to point it in the general direction and hope it stays on course. LOL Your Explorer is a lot lighter then my Stroke so you will probably be fine.

Oh and I almost forgot my Fox body Stang has had heims in place of it's TRE for about 12 years now. And 8 of those years were in Iowa. No rust or squeaks. My buddy thought I was moron when I replaced it's TRE with heims, guess I got the last laugh.

 

[turboexplorer]

Any reason this reamer wouldn't work? I can't find any reviews on the product but from all the research I have done the GM 1 ton tre's that I got from ruffstuff in the inverted T set up has a taper of 7.15* or 1.5" per foot.

Reamer

I plan to set the knuckles and pitman arm up on a mill and ream them out with that and a lot of cutting oil. The only thing I can't figure out is if the high angle tre has a different taper than the 1 ton rod ends? I know it's not the same size just not sure if its the same taper angle or not?

Anyone have a reamer I can pay to borrow?

 

[turboexplorer]

This is what I have found so far.

Link where I found this info Link to rod end info

This is the information that was listed:
"TRE kit, includes ES2233L (1), ES2027L (1), and ES2234R (2).

Note: the es2027L is a drag link end and has a different taper than the other Tie Rod ends. It is intended for mounting on a pitman arm but will require further reaming of any stock pitman arm to fit. The reamer used for the standard TRE's (1.5 inches/foot) will work to ream out the pitman arm but will require a deeper reaming."

 

[IZwack]

Should be fine then - just drive the reamer further in to the pitman arm.

 

[turboexplorer]

Thats what I have found in 4 places that sell the tre's, is that its the same angle just bigger which just means ream it deeper.

Any reason I couldn't ream the factory knuckles to over steer? I know the bottom of the knuckle would be a little big to make full contact with the taper of the tie rod. Stic-o reamed his for over steer and said it seams to be fine.

 

[buckwill]

Bronco2guy just purchased the $90 reamer, he got 3 cuts with it before it went dull. I guess the pitman arm did it in. I am having a hard time justifying that cost for that little use. Unless using it in a drill press and lots of cutting oil saves it, or it can be sharpened, I doubt I will bother with it.

I will be using stock Drive shafts, as they are a dime a dozen used at the JY's. Just beef up the U-joints is all. If it was strictly a trail rig, I would entertain a custom square tube shaft instead.

I am using grade 8, 9/16" U-bolts with the full width 8.8 swap. I can get them custom made local for cheap. I do like those perch kits RuffStuff sells as well.

The trackbar frame mount is still messing with my head trying to figure it out. Have you figured it out yet? Looks to me as it will be one of those things we figure out when it's time to install, and cant plan ahead. Ack!

Trying to use the F-150 RA's on a 2nd gen is also turning out to be a PITA with the frame mounts.

Hee Hee! 2nd gen Full Width SAS=funsville!

, they can be sharpened, easy and as i remember about 25 percent of new or less,, as a tapered reamer they can be sshrapened many times before u run out of taper, definetly use cutting oil of some kind,, tapmajic is good, just be careful of the fumes,, buck

 

[turboexplorer]

If you look at the pictures in post 43 you can see that the knuckles are set up for understeer. The GM tre's are almost fully seated when put in in understeer position. Which means if I just ream it for oversteer only about 50% of the taper will be in contact with the knuckle. That doesn't seam adequate to me. Only other option is to drill it and use the tapered inserts. I would like to just go from the tre to the knuckle but with only 50% or so of the taper touching it makes me leery. I would still need a reamer as well to ream out the pitman arm.

I don't really want to run understeer for clearance reasons either. Plus RuffStuff reamed the hole in the passenger side (longer tre for inverted T steering) for oversteer. So if I went with under I would have to buy a new one and ream it on the other side anyways.

 

[james t]

Thats what I have found in 4 places that sell the tre's, is that its the same angle just bigger which just means ream it deeper.

Any reason I couldn't ream the factory knuckles to over steer? I know the bottom of the knuckle would be a little big to make full contact with the taper of the tie rod. Stic-o reamed his for over steer and said it seams to be fine.

Yes, most everyone does this and it works fine. The GM's have a bigger bore than the old stock Ford and inverting the hole works great.

 

[DB_1]

I did the tie-rod flip on my EB D44 (before I went to heims) and it worked fine.

 

[turboexplorer]

Okay so just reaming it should be fine then. Sounds good to me! Thanks guys. Going to buy that reamer off of summit since I have to buy the oil filter relocation kit anyways. I am confident I will use the reamer again.