The Gem Conundrum

[GTMountain]

So, I now have two Explorers and need to get rid of one. Problem is, they are both gems. Help me figure out which stays and which goes ...

1) 1997 Mercury Mountaineer: 302 V8, 4R70W (full time awd), uber tow package, trans and oil coolers, fantastic overall shape, Ford service records going back to new, 6k hitch and air shocks, new tires, dual power seats and windows, 102,000 miles. It does have a bit of rocker noise but runs/drives flawlessly.

2) 1996 Ford Explorer XLT: 4.0 OHV V6, 4R55e (2wd), also in fantastic overall shape, new tires, dual power seats and windows, service record since new (even have the original windows sticker and brochure), perfect running condition ... AND ... get this ... 58,670 miles.

It's a tough choice. While we don't actually have a current need for towing the Mountaineer would obviously be better should the need arise. Not that the Explorer can't tow but I trust the venerable 4R70W over the 4R55e any day.

Both are nearly spotless inside and out.

The V6 and 2wd of the Explorer returns much better fuel economy and we live in AZ where awd for weather isn't a factor. Plus, we don't do any offroading.

I just don't know. Both were previously owned by the elderly as one owner vehicles. Both have meticulous service history. Both have backseats that have never been sat in.

If you need pictures just google the year/model because they both look showroom new, hahaha.

What do you all think? Mountaineer or Explorer?

 

[J_C]

Keep the Mountaineer, then you won't have to change the vehicle in your user profile.

Otherwise I'd consider what I would tow if I were to tow, and how much to value the higher performance of the V8. At those low miles I don't think fuel economy is going to be that much of a factor unless you just received both of them so haven't had a chance to put miles on yet. Then again, my crystal ball is broken, gas could go back to $4/gal.

 

[Rhett]

Good grief, I wouldn't know what to do. I think i'd keep both, since they would both be inexpensive to insure, etc.

I guess if I were tied down, forced to make a choice with hot pokers aimed at me, I would have to keep the 302/4R70W truck. If the AWD ever konks out you can at least have a strong platform for a 4WD conversion.

 

[GTMountain]

Interestingly, the 302 isn't much more performance wise. You get a couple extra hp and 30 ft lbs or so but turning all the extra drivetrain makes then pretty comparable.
The few mpg gallon difference probably isn't huge even at $4/gallon. Heck, we could always daily something more fuel efficient when we don't need the room.

I would keep both if I could justify it. However, we have the 2 Explorers and a car all while I work from home. It's hard to justify two vehicles let alone 3.
Doubt we'd ever have issues and we don't really need true offroad capability anyways. Too nice to turn into an offroad project too. So mint the both of them.

I should add that our reason for having an SUV at all is for our business. We own a production company and need to be able to haul our gear and occasionally cast.
I like the idea of towing capability because we may eventually want to transport set pieces but that is about all I can justify for it.

No need to explain why the toughest and most reliable Explorer platform is my pick, haha.

 

[J_C]

^ You're probably thinking of the later 4.0L SOHC engine. The 4.0L OHV that yours has is 160 HP and 220 ft lb, vs the 302, 5.0L with 210 HP and 280 ft lb.

 

[GTMountain]

Ahh, you're right. Still though, behind the wheel, pickup feels pretty much the same. Really not noticeable unless highway passing. Even then, the 4.0 does fine just not as much grunt.

 

[MAS Tequila]

The 302 will still be going when the V6 is being used as an anchor.

MT

 

[boominXplorer]

Sell the low mile v6 for the most money and keep the v8

 

[koda2000]

Easy choice. If I had to get rid of one it would be the V6. A 5.0L V8 with 102k is just getting broken in. With regular maintenance the V8's can pretty easily go 300k. We still have 2 V8's one with 220k+ (with no issues whatsoever) and the other with 190k (also with no issues). I have one V6 SOHC left and it's been nothing but problems. The OHV is less problematic than the SOHC, but is boring, under-powered and has the same weak transmission as the SOHC. Any old vehicle will require repairs, but the 5.0L is one the most reliable engines out there.

 

[GTMountain]

J_C --- Set pieces can be all different types of things but they are basically the items or rooms that make up a filming set. Typically pretty lightweight since they are just for show and not meant to be functional. For example, most of the walls you see in movies/tv that are done on a set are actually just removable 4" wide sections. A 2x2 outer frame plus a thin sheet on one side. Did I ruin some of the movie magic? The Explorer is the newest addition and I havent yet turned a wrench on it. We intend to give her a nice tune-up before deciding. Very true about age being more than miles though. Especially true here in Arizona. While we don't have rust the heat/sun eats away things too.

MAS Tequila --- If it was the 4.0 SOHC I would agree but the OHV is pretty damn solid. My fathers Ranger with one did over 300,000 miles with a rocker/lifter job around 200,000. That's with good maintenance but rough use. I do love the 302. First motor I ever worked on in a 1986 Crown Vic. Knowing I'd have to do the rockers/lifters in the 302 since I already have noise is not something I look forward to. Certainly a great motor the both of them though.

boominXplorer --- I think I can sell the Mountaineer for more (or easier) though actually. The awd is more desirable and so is the 302. Plus, there's tons of people around here who do tow large items and/or offroad. Plus, the tan exterior and tan/brown interior of the Explorer doesn't appeal to most while the much nicer looking silver/burgundy exterior and grey interior of the Mountaineer just looks less 90s, haha.

koda2000 --- I think both these venerable motors are pretty much just barely broken in, haha. 99% of the problems related to the SOHC don't exist in the OHV. I do agree that it has a fair bit less oomph though. - The transmission might be the single biggest item keeping me from being happy with the Explorer. While it has less than 60,000 miles on it and has gotten regular fluid service I know it has it's issues. Compare that to the 4R70W, which is just beastly, and its a hard sell.

 

[Dan Whitaker]

You don't want three vehicles? Hell, a few years ago we had six vehicles, and that was just the wife & I.

We're just down to two now and it sucks. We both want a third vehicle so if one is down for repair we have a back up, or if I'm wrenching on one while the wife is gone, I have a chase vehicle.

 

[GTMountain]

Whitaker --- I'd love to keep them all but, right now, the more money we can put into our business and/or save the better.

 

[koda2000]

@GTMountain
I know the OHV 4.0L is a much more reliable engine as compared to the 4.0L SOHC, but they do share the same weaker trans. From what I've read, the OHV 4.0L engine's weak point is the cylinder heads (they tend to crack and/or blow head gaskets) but even if they were as bullet-proof as the 5.0L V8, there's no way I'd choose the 4.0L V6 over the 5,0L V8. JMHO. I once considered a 2000 OHV 4.0L, but a short test drive cured me of that.

As far as the SOHC 4.0L, I've now owned 3 of them. The first one was a POS, the second one wasn't too bad as it had a rebuilt engine in it when I bought it, the third (and last SOHC I'll ever own) is also a POS.

We have 2 regular driver's on our household and, as we're both driving 16-17 year old vehicles at this point, I feel it's a wise to keep a spare vehicle around just in case one of our DD's breaks down and can't be repaired immediately (which has happened numerous times to-date). Hence I keep the POS 4.0L ST SOHC around. It rattles and makes other strange noises, but it's still drive-able around town and for short trips. In the past six months I've divested myself of 3 of our other Explorers and Mountaineers. Another one may go next spring to be replaced by a newer Explorer V8.

 

[J_C]

Yeah, having a spare vehicle allows me to do a lot more work myself, saving quite a bit of money. I just wish I could convince the insurance company that addt'l vehicles should have free liability insurance because there are fewer drivers than vehicles and I don't loan people mine (would sign a waiver if necessary), not like all of them are ever on the road at once.

 

[Varsity]

I think the Mountaineer is the clear winner, V8 and more reliable drivetrain, even though the OHV is laughable performance-wise, the reliability factor is nothing to scoff at. More options and higher value makes the most sense to keep. The problem is with the low miles on the Explorer, there's a higher chance of leaks or repairs needed down the road from sitting and not being used. Sometimes unusually low miles on an older vehicle is more of a curse than a blessing. I'm usually a little weary of vehicles with super low miles for their year, because those low miles can be a hassle down the road should you start really putting the vehicle into service. But that's also just my opinion though..

Although I will play devil's advocate for a second though, the Mountaineer does have more value to it, at least, as much as a 20 year vehicle can have. So if you really have no need for the all extras and options, you could always sell the Mountaineer and get more money for it than you would the Explorer and use the money for the family or something else. Why sit on a vehicle packed and loaded with things you have no real need for, when you can sell it and use the money else where. I mean, they are 20 year old vehicles, regardless, both will need repairs at some point.

Good luck with your decision!! Not that it helps, but you're in a predicament that most of us here would love to be in!

 

[Rhett]

From what I've read, the OHV 4.0L engine's weak point is the cylinder heads (they tend to crack and/or blow head gaskets) [/QUOTE]

That's more true of the 2.9L, not the 4.0 OHV. Still I agree if I were the OP I'd still keep the V8 one, hands down. 1st gens should have come with the 302 and its stouter driveline.

 

[GTMountain]

Koda2000 --- With your collection, do you have any rocker/lifter noise and or replaced them yet? I know it's a bear of a job but at the same time the noise is pretty endemic to the motor and doesn't seam to hurt anything. There sure are a lot of noisy 302s that have been driven that way for ages.

J_C --- Even worse when you use the vehicle for business I assure you. It's not like we're doing anything with them outside of what they are designed for but it matter little :-/

Varsity --- I agree on the extreme low miles issue. Sometimes, weird issues arise and they seem to happen all at once. The local used car market here has very little of any quality. Can def get a good buck out of either. Certainly more than I have into them. - Hence why I'm calling it "The Gem Conundrum" , haha.

Rhett --- Agreed, the 2.9 had a world of issues and all the OHV 4.0s I know of have been tough as nails. It's not hands down in my mind but it is for sure hard to argue with 302+4R70W

 

[koda2000]

None of our 5.0's ever made any lifter noise. Cam sync squeak (easily fixed with a few drops of oil) on one 5.0. The worst repair to make can be the 5.0L water pump. I do 99% of my own repairs, but I farmed that one out to a mechanic friend of mine recently. I supplied the w/p and he changed it for $125. Worth every penny.

Repairs I've made to some of my 5.0's over the last 5-6 years:
Upper and lower ball joints (to all my Explorers/Mountaineers)
Sway bar end-links (of course)
Outer tie rod ends
Radiators
1 water pump I did myself
Valve cover gaskets
Fuel pumps/filters (to all my Explorers/Mountaineers)
Spark plugs/wires (to all my Explorers/Mountaineers)
Belts/hoses
Front rotors/front & rear brake jobs
Front/rear axle seals/bearings
Replaced several A/C clutches
Replaced EATC unit and blend door actuators
Replaced a front window regulator w/motor
Replaced driver's side lower seat leather
Recovered arm rests (to all my Explorers/Mountaineers)
Replaced a rear window glass hinge
Replaced door latch bushings and some lock actuators
Replaced several exterior door handles
Replaced shock absorbers
Rebuilt front drive shaft CV joint on the AWD

All in all I've found the 5.0L's to be very reliable and quite deserving of their bullet-proof reputation. I plan to keep my '01 EB for many years to come. It's near perfect, mechanically and inside/out cosmetically, with 190,000 miles on the clock. It may very well outlive me... LOL.

 

[GTMountain]

The Mountaineer had the noise when we first got it. At first, I thought it was an exhaust leak due to the 97 exhaust mani issues but the manifolds turned out to be fine. It got a lot quieter when I gave her a seafoam oil treatment, put in a motorcraft filter, and went to synthetic oil plus MMO. I do all my own work too. Not exactly sure if it's the lifter or the rocker though. I don't hear very well (Army) but it's def still there.

Other than that all it needed was a blend door and actuator and the drivers side door handle springs failed which I fixed with my own spring setup instead of drilling out the rivets and dealing with that pain in the butt. Has been dead solid.

The Explorer is new to us. I ran out and bought it because it was such a good deal I couldnt pass it up and I figured that after we got it I'd decide which one we kept and then turn a profit.

Both have insane amounts of documentation since new. The Mountaineer has def had more work done but nothing major.

 

[koda2000]

A lifter tick is annoying, but not really anything critical. A valve that's a little loose is better than a valve that's too tight. I'm a bit OCD about everything on a vehicle working as it's supposed to, so I get it though.