The infamous OHV 4.0 rattle, tap, tap, is indeed the lifters!

[Cobraguy]

It's not hurting ANYTHING...my 2.9L 1988 Ranger tapped like a SOB for 100,000 miles (and it went for 273,000 miles).

Look, you need to keep advice like that to yourself. That is just horrible. What if it's a rod knocking? I seriously doubt that wouldn't be hurting ANYTHING...


adambodkins: That problem really sounds like piston slap to me. It's not that uncommon...and in fact, the 4.6 32V 2001 Cobras all had it it seems from clearances and piston materials. Chevy is really having problems with it is some of their engines. It can be caused by different things...and some might be serious. Most aren't. A cracked piston could be serious. But a collapsed skirt probably isn't. A little extra clearance in that cylinder would do it and should be fine. As long as it goes away when warm, it's probably fine. But I don't want you to just ignore it on my posting either. Have it checked by someone to make sure. You don't want to damage an engine more than necessary because you missed something serious.

 

[adambodkins]

cobra I appreciate it. I took it to my mechanic this morning and asked him about it and he said the only real way to diagnose the problem would be to tear down the engine and check the clearance. Which to me seemed a bit much since it goes away about as quickly as it starts and usually only once a day. But I supposed around sometime next year when I hit the 200,000 mi. mark I am going to go ahead and have it rebuilt and it can all be checked then.

 

[35Remmy]

Cobra, I was saying that based upon knowing that the noise was coming from the pushrods...I KNOW mine was coming from the pushrods (AND the lifters until they pumped up on the '88 2.9L). Jeesh. The very LAST thing I would want to do is offer catastrophic advice.

 

[Mac Daddy]

I've rebuilt several of these 4.0 OHV'S with a loud top end...

99.9% of the time I find between one and five rockers severely worn while the rest look just fine....

I replace the worn rockers and the noise is gone... Just food for thought but here's a visual for you guys.

I'm attaching pictures of a severely worn rocker along with one not so worn...
Both of these came out of the same 4.0 I'm working on right now...this engine has 155,400 miles on it.

Although the lifters do wear out from time to time, I find the lifters fail more due to plugging up with sludge and debris due to lack of regular maintenance.

Ford also didn't drill the rockers with a way for oil to make it to the tip of the rockers The only oil they get is the splashing around under the valve cover.... It appears this in turn allows some rockers to wear more then others as you can see in the pictures.
This of course causes allot of top end tapping as the lifters cannot compensate for a worn rocker arm like the one below.

I hope this information helps.

 

[LAWG_rider]

This is helpful. I have the tap but only on start up when its cold outside. Is that a sticking lifter? Or is it worn rockers? Can you tell if your rockers are worn just by taking off the valve covers and trying to jiggle a connecting rod?

 

[gmanpaint]

Anyone have a link to the heat treated tip pushrods?

 

[Maniak]

If the f-40 kit from delta cam.

http://www.deltacam.com/

~Mark

edit: I just happen to look in the box next to me and what do I see but my Delta Camshaft invoice from when I bought the DEL-F40kit. Total cost on my receipt was 231.01 including shipping and I have a 2nd invoice for -$42 from when I sent in my old rocker assembly back. That was back in July of 2007..

 

[Mac Daddy]

This is helpful. I have the tap but only on start up when its cold outside. Is that a sticking lifter? Or is it worn rockers? Can you tell if your rockers are worn just by taking off the valve covers and trying to jiggle a connecting rod?

Thank you,

I would have to say yes, the lifters will take a while to pump up if they are contaminated with sludge and debris or excessively worn and leaking (not pumping up) but once they do pump up the tapping will stop as long as the rest of the valve train is not worn as in my post above... If the rockers are worn excessively then the lifters can't compensate.

As for your second question, No, I would say it would be better to remove the rocker arm assembly and inspect it on the bench. The one I'm working on now had a rocker rail completely plugged with sludge.... There was no way for oil to even get to the rockers. I would not have known that if I hadn't pulled it off the engine...

These 4 liters are known for sludge build up so unfortunately you have to check everything on these engines.

If your tap is subtle then you may just have some dirt/sludge in the system.... I've heard good reports on a couple cleaners on the market... I've personally never tried them but that doesn't mean they don't work.... You may want to check them out and see if that might be something you want to try first...
Sea Foam engine treatment and one called X something...I can't remember but I've heard both work well.

Have a good day.

 

[tyler90512]

mine tapps to... how much did it cost?

 

[Mac Daddy]

mine tapps to... how much did it cost?

I purchase all the rockers from AutoZone or Napa and they are around $8 each...

Make sure you flush the rail out and get all the garbage out of it... Use a paperclip and verify all the oiling holes are open.

In regards to the products I spoke about in an earlier post.... I have now used the Sea Foam engine cleaner with excellent results... I got a 99 4.0 in an Explorer towed to me about a month ago that rattled really bad and had very low oil pressure. I decided to try the Sea Foam and I was shocked at how well it worked...

I poured half a bottle in the oil and ran it for 10 minutes at idle, drained it and refilled with fresh oil and filter.... Poured the rest of the half bottle in and ran it for another 15 minutes at idle... Drained the oil (Very nasty) and refilled with a new filter...

Oil pressure is now much higher and no more rattling.... Vehicle owner is very pleased and hasn't had any further issues with the oil pressure showing low.

 

[Wrench]

Some of the 4.0L OHV engines had piston slap hot or cold and would come and go but not worth worrying about. It would seem like a valve train noise but was really a production clearance issue.

 

[Rum Runner]

Hello Mac Daddy,

I wanted to ask you, on the 4.0 OHV rocker arm assembly install, is it straight forward job? Are there any adjustments? Or do you just work the assembly down and slowly torque the rocker arms in place?

Thanks

 

[Rum Runner]

Some of the 4.0L OHV engines had piston slap hot or cold and would come and go but not worth worrying about. It would seem like a valve train noise but was really a production clearance issue.

Could piston slap be a part of denotation caused by inefficient valve openings from worn rocker arms and push rods? Just a thought. I understand the 4.0 OHV in 1998-99 had a shorter piston sleeve allowing the piston to move more freely in the cylinder and possibly cause piston slap.

Change in subject. The two engine cleaners aforementioned:

1. Sea Foam (never tried it, heard it was quality product)

2. Auto-RX (a long-term metal cleaner, have had success de-sludging a 4.0 OHV engine. You must be patient with this product and follow directions. It's only at Auto-RX.com and it ain't cheap)

 

[ranger7ltr]

Not Mac Daddy but have installed new rocker arms and pushrods...

Hello Mac Daddy,

I wanted to ask you, on the 4.0 OHV rocker arm assembly install, is it straight forward job? Are there any adjustments? Or do you just work the assembly down and slowly torque the rocker arms in place?

Thanks

The assemblies bolt down with 3 bolts per side...You remove and replace them and torque the 3 bolts in steps to final torque...There are no adjustments on the 4 liter Ford OHV valvetrain assembly...

When I built my engine for my 99 X, I bought new rocker assemblies and new pushrods as well as lifters from a company in Ft. Worth..Even with me soaking the lifters in oil for 24 hrs, it still took about 2-4 minutes for the oil to completely fill each lifter and the clicking sound to go away on the new engine...

 

[Mac Daddy]

Hello Mac Daddy,

I wanted to ask you, on the 4.0 OHV rocker arm assembly install, is it straight forward job? Are there any adjustments? Or do you just work the assembly down and slowly torque the rocker arms in place?


Thanks

Yes it is a very simple job..... Once you remove the valve cover there are three bolts that hold the Rocker arm assembly to the head, you remove those bolts and the rocker arms will lift off still attached to the shaft. From there you can remove the cotter pin and remove the rocker arms and springs themselves from the rocker arm shaft... Installation is the reverse and yes you set the rocker assembly down on the head, lining up your push rods as you go and once everything is all aligned, tighten the three bolts to specs.

Could piston slap be a part of denotation caused by inefficient valve openings from worn rocker arms and push rods? Just a thought. I understand the 4.0 OHV in 1998-99 had a shorter piston sleeve allowing the piston to move more freely in the cylinder and possibly cause piston slap.

Change in subject. The two engine cleaners aforementioned:

1. Sea Foam (never tried it, heard it was quality product)

2. Auto-RX (a long-term metal cleaner, have had success de-sludging a 4.0 OHV engine. You must be patient with this product and follow directions. It's only at Auto-RX.com and it ain't cheap)

Your first statement is correct.....The valvetrain condition dictates how the engine will run and sound. I am not sure on the second statement...

As for the cleaners.... That is why I choose to use the Sea Foam, I get very good results on lets say three cans or $21 worth.... No sense in using the more expensive product then, in my opinion.

I bought another 97 Explorer not too long ago and it too was all sludged up. After three treatments of SeaFoam I pulled it down for a new timing set and sure enough, it was much cleaner....Not perfect but a huge improvement.
I like the stuff personally and I now use it in all my vehicles....

 

[Rum Runner]

Thanks for the replies....

That gives me a little more confidence. One last question.

Is there any need to buy new bolts? (3 rocker bolts) Or do you need to use loctite?

 

[Rum Runner]

The assemblies bolt down with 3 bolts per side...You remove and replace them and torque the 3 bolts in steps to final torque...There are no adjustments on the 4 liter Ford OHV valvetrain assembly...

When I built my engine for my 99 X, I bought new rocker assemblies and new pushrods as well as lifters from a company in Ft. Worth..Even with me soaking the lifters in oil for 24 hrs, it still took about 2-4 minutes for the oil to completely fill each lifter and the clicking sound to go away on the new engine...

How many miles were on your re-build? How did the lifters look as opposed to the rocker arms? Yeah I could imagine having done all that work and having to wait for noisy lifters to pump up with oil!

 

[Mac Daddy]

That gives me a little more confidence. One last question.

Is there any need to buy new bolts? (3 rocker bolts) Or do you need to use loctite?

I have never replaced the bolts on the 8 or 10 I've overhauled.... Nor have I used Loctite.

 

[Mac Daddy]

How many miles were on your re-build? How did the lifters look as opposed to the rocker arms? Yeah I could imagine having done all that work and having to wait for noisy lifters to pump up with oil!

You can soak the lifters for weeks and you'd never get all the small air pockets out of them unless you actually worked each lifter while submerged.... Too much work when they will pump up in a minute or two after the initial start-up.

I soak for 4 hours and leave the rest to start up.

 

[Maniak]

<snip> From there you can remove the cotter pin and remove the rocker arms and springs themselves from the rocker arm shaft... <snip>

Is it really that easy? I tried that when I only had 1 back rocker arm and couldn't get them off. I got as far as pulling the 1st arm off and that was it. I couldn't get the rest of it apart to get to one of the inner arms.

~Mark