Timing Chain Issue Questions

[redhill]

Hello,

I hope this post finds everyone (and their Ford) doing well!

Getting some noises from under the hood and had the serpentine belt replaced. Although that did quiet things down some, I have been told that the timing belt will need to be replaced at some point (one mechanic said it was the front and the other said it was the rear.)

Was also told that it will only get louder but that many people drive for years with a noisy timing belt.

One of the tensioners was already replaced and was also told that replacing others won't solve the problem.

Does anyone have experience with this? I definitely cannot afford (right now) to spend this kind of money and the truck has around 130k miles.

Is there another way to tighten / adjust the belt without replacing it entirely? Is it true that it can run like that for years? It's not too noisy yet but really want to keep this truck well maintained.

Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

[koda2000]

Are you asking about a 1994?

Beginning is 1997 there were 3 engines available in the Explorer. There is no timing "belt" in any of them. A very common problem with the 4.0L SOHC V6 is that the timing chain components break, which leads to the "death rattle". When there are timing chain related problems you usually get noise at startup and as it gets worse at idle it sounds like a diesel. Replacing timing chain components is very expensive as the engine needs to be removed to get at the rear chains. The 5.0L V8 and the OHV V6 usually don't have timing chain issues and they should be good for the life of the engine.

 

[redhill]

Are you asking about a 1994?

Beginning is 1997 there were 3 engines available in the Explorer. There is no timing "belt" in any of them. A very common problem with the 4.0L SOHC V6 is that the timing chain components break, which leads to the "death rattle". When there are timing chain related problems you usually get noise at startup and as it gets worse at idle it sounds like a diesel. Replacing timing chain components is very expensive as the engine needs to be removed to get at the rear chains. The 5.0L V8 and the OHV V6 usually don't have timing chain issues and they should be good for the life of the engine.

My apologies for not being more clear...This is a 2001 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. Please let me know if you need any further engine details. Also, you are correct in stating that it is a timing chain issue.

Thanks again!

 

[koda2000]

My apologies for not being more clear...This is a 2001 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. Please let me know if you need any further engine details. Also, you are correct in stating that it is a timing chain issue.

Thanks again!

I also have an '01 Sport Trac I purchased site-unseen last summer for cheap. They all had the 4.0L SOHC engine. There's the earlier version (known as Job 1) and the later version (know as Job 2). Mechanically they're almost identical. The Job 2 has a one piece intake and black plastic valve covers. Mine has the Job 2 version.

The problems with these engines is the hydraulic chain tensioners and the timing chain cassettes that are largely made of plastic and break. It's a ****ty design. Newer chain cassettes are a better design and a pre-oiler eliminates the issue with the hydraulic chain tensioners at engine start. Once the chain cassettes break, pieces end up in the oil pan and often block the oil pickup. The front chain cassette can be replaced with the engine installed, but to replace the rear cassette requires either the engine or transmission to come out.

If you do the work yourself you're looking at around $1000 worth of improved OE parts and a lot of work. To pay someone to do the work you can add another $1000 in labor.

I have a little chain noise at cold engine start, but my cassettes are still in tact. I plan to add a pre-oiler to mine, in the spring, to extend my engine life. Once parts start breaking it's only a matter of time before the engine will jump time and destroy itself. I learned this lesson the hard way with my now scrapped first 4.0L SOHC (an '01 4 door Explorer).

 

[david4451]

Koda2000 is correct in all he said about 2001 4l SOHC. It is a major problem with the timing chain hydraulic tensioners being void of oil pressure at start up. This in turn leads to the death rattle and front or rear plastic cassettes disintegratiing.

I have fitted a pre oiler and ALL rattle has gone, vanished, stopped. There is NO other viable way to to prevent this rattle at start up, without replacing front and back cassettes.

If your timing chain noise is present while driving rpm 2000 to 25000, not even pre oiling will be a fix, you have to then plan to replace the cassettes soon especially as you already have 130k miles.

 

[HELMUT RONER]

I just want to add to all that was said above. You also want to be able to differentiate the timing chain noise from a serpentine belt tensioner that's going bad. I had both. I still have a front chain rattle on mine with 174K miles, but recently changed a noisy serpentine belt tensioner on my 2002 Job 2. I could look at it with the engine running and was able to tell with the way it shook that it was making the terrible "snapping" noise. The video link below is mine of my bad serpentine belt tensioner. My replacement is a Gates 38137 which is identical to the original Ford. Had to remove the lower half of my stock air filter box to put enough leverage on the new tensioner to get the belt back on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jm9QfOi8xs

 

[redhill]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. It is VERY helpful as I struggle with these issues and am not overly mechanical.

So is it correct that the chains are the timing chain, gears, guide and tensioner assembly?

If a piece has snapped or broken off will I be able to spot it visually or just ask my mechanic to look in the oil pan at the next oil change?

Sound like if a piece is chipped / snapped then there is no way to replace a portion....rather the chain needs to be replaced?

The serpentine belt was replaced and was told that a serpentine tensioner was not the culprit. Now that it's done, I'll check to see (apart from the cold start) at what rpm's the sound is noticeable. I should say that I got the "death rattle" a few times a couple of months ago (at 65mph on the highway) but the mechanic and I *think* that it was due to 4WD not disengaging (have no idea why he put it into 4WD in the first place but that's another story.)

It's no longer doing that.

Lastly, is the pre-oil setup something that I might be able to do? I can usually get simpler things done (swaybar sidelinks / starter / etc) it just takes me a longer time than it otherwise might.

Thanks again and your continued replies would be most welcome! I need to keep this truck on the road and will be taking it to get an oil change at which time I'll be talking to that mechanic about it as well.

 

[david4451]

Have a read of these threads
22mm oil filter adapter by koda2000
Pre lube and centrifugal oil filters by david4451

 

[TJ Sport]

I just finished changing the left head cam chain and tensioner. Fortunately, it is the front chain and can be done in vehicle. Figure like koda said, about $1000 in parts and special tools and a lot of work. I had a rough idle and bucking at acceleration. Heard a metallic clacking under the left valve cover, and removed it to see the cam chain guide in pieces. Dropping the oil pan, I found lots of plastic and metal parts, and the oil pickup screen was almost blocked with small parts. Good luck!

 

[redhill]

Have a read of these threads
22mm oil filter adapter by koda2000
Pre lube and centrifugal oil filters by david4451

Appreciate the input but those are both Amazon links.

 

[david4451]

Type in the search at top of this page.

 

[koda2000]

Assuming you use a 22mm oil filter (Motorcraft FL820S) you may find some useful info on building a pre-oiler in this thread. Cost is around $200.

https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437445&highlight=22mm+oil

If your engine takes the SAE oil filter (Motorcraft FL1A ) you'll need an SAE oil filter adaptor. Other than that, david4451's and my solution are basically the same.

 

[redhill]

Thanks again for all the help.

Getting an oil change in the next few weeks and am wondering if the tensioners can be seen by eye to determine if any of them need maintenance or replacement?

Also, until I can get the pre-oiler set up, is there any way to grease some of these parts or otherwise "baby" them in the meantime? Perhaps greasing the hydraulic chain tensioners?

Am getting the timing chain rattle up until 3000 rpm (especially when cold.)

Insight appreciated as I need to keep this on the road!

 

[koda2000]

Honestly, if you are experiencing timing time rattle at any time other than at engine start you definitely have timing chain component damage. A pre-oiler will not help this condition. The damage has already occurred, so oil changes will not improve anything and (while I'm not recommending you neglect oil changes) it's hard to guess how much further your engine will run before it destroys itself. It could let go tomorrow, or it could go on for tens of thousands of miles. You could have it repaired soon, but once the chains let go you will have to replace the engine. Either way you're looking at thousands of dollars. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that.

 

[redhill]

Honestly, if you are experiencing timing time rattle at any time other than at engine start you definitely have timing chain component damage. A pre-oiler will not help this condition. The damage has already occurred, so oil changes will not improve anything and (while I'm not recommending you neglect oil changes) it's hard to guess how much further your engine will run before it destroys itself. It could let go tomorrow, or it could go on for tens of thousands of miles. You could have it repaired soon, but once the chains let go you will have to replace the engine. Either way you're looking at thousands of dollars. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that.

Koda, I appreciate the forthright post as I need to save money for the worst case scenario.

I have read that, however, using using a light viscosity, pure synthetic oil is the best option in the meantime.

Would you agree with that?

Thanks again.

 

[koda2000]

Koda, I appreciate the forthright post as I need to save money for the worst case scenario.

I have read that, however, using using a light viscosity, pure synthetic oil is the best option in the meantime.

Would you agree with that?

Thanks again.

In my opinion, using a lighter weight oil can help oil get into the hydraulic tensioners more quickly, but that's only of benefit at engine start. I'm using Mobil-1 Full Synthetic 0W30 in my '01 ST during the winter for that reason. During the summer I plan to go back to using 5W30. It helps in my situation, but I don't have any chain noise once my engine is running, only for a second or two at startup. That's why I plan to install a pre-oiler. In the meantime I crank my engine w/out starting it until I get oil pressure up, then I get no chain noise at all. If I had chain noise with the engine running I wouldn't bother with the pre-oiler.

Our 1st used Explorer SOHC had all the symptoms of the dreaded "timing chain death rattle" but we didn't know any better at the time. It continued running for another 30K with regular oil changes and then grenaded and wasn't worth fixing.

 

[redhill]

In my opinion, using a lighter weight oil can help oil get into the hydraulic tensioners more quickly, but that's only of benefit at engine start. I'm using Mobil-1 Full Synthetic 0W30 in my '01 ST during the winter for that reason. During the summer I plan to go back to using 5W30. It helps in my situation, but I don't have any chain noise once my engine is running, only for a second or two at startup. That's why I plan to install a pre-oiler. In the meantime I crank my engine w/out starting it until I get oil pressure up, then I get no chain noise at all. If I had chain noise with the engine running I wouldn't bother with the pre-oiler.

Our 1st used Explorer SOHC had all the symptoms of the dreaded "timing chain death rattle" but we didn't know any better at the time. It continued running for another 30K with regular oil changes and then grenaded and wasn't worth fixing.

Thanks for the further information. To clarify, I have very little chain noise when running (and at lower RPMs.)

One thing that is confusing to me is while some suggest using a lighter weight oil in this instance, I have seen many others also recommend using an additive such as STP Oil Treatment or Lucas Oil Stabilizer (I know there are varying opinions on such treatments.)

Won't adding such a thick fluid be counterproductive? Do you (or anyone) have any experience with these in such a circumstance?

Thanks again!

 

[koda2000]

Thanks for the further information. To clarify, I have very little chain noise when running (and at lower RPMs.)

One thing that is confusing to me is while some suggest using a lighter weight oil in this instance, I have seen many others also recommend using an additive such as STP Oil Treatment or Lucas Oil Stabilizer (I know there are varying opinions on such treatments.)

Won't adding such a thick fluid be counterproductive? Do you (or anyone) have any experience with these in such a circumstance?

Thanks again!

I had tried using STP in our first SOHC 4.0L. It didn't make any difference. I do not believe that using any additive will buy you anything. IMO using a thicker oil for timing chain noise will only make the oil take longer to pressurize the tensioners, which will lead to more damage.