Timing chain rattle - repair or keep driviing ?

[davem]

The timing chain rattle is getting more noticeable on my 2001 Explorer 4x4 XLT V-6 4.0 SOHC. I've got 175K miles on it and would like to get another 2-3 years (approx 25K more miles) out of it (my daughter's college car).

Is there any reason for me to consider a 'preventative repair' at an independent shop ? (This shop has always been very reasonably priced for most repairs that I've had done there over the years.) There is NO WAY I want to undertake this project myself.

Or should I just drive it till it fails ?

The body, interior, tranny/drivetrain, etc are all in what I would consider average/slightly above average condition for the age/mileage..... and would not tip the scales towards making any big investment.

 

[davem]

I would describe the noise that I'm hearing as being very similar to 'pinging' you would hear while under load/while accelerating. I seem to be hearing it under lighter load conditions, too, lately.

At idle, it sounds pretty good.

Are there any tell-tale situations that I should be paying attention to, that would indicate its the timing chain/tensioners ?


When it fails, is this something that fails/engine stop running while driving down the road ? Or becomes a "wont start" scenario ?


Sorry for all the questions on a well-discussed topic that suddenly got much more personal for me.............. I think.

 

[boominXplorer]

To do the chains on the 4.0 sohc your looking at a $1800-$2000 repair. To be honest if it sounds good at idle ALL the time then I wouldn't worry. Keep a Motorcraft oil filter on it and keep good oil in it. You should see 200k miles no problem.

 

[rb142]

If the rattle is "getting more noticeable", the chances of you getting another 25K out of it are extremely poor. When it does go, it will stop the engine right where you are and you won't be going anywhere (in my case it was the middle of a large intersection right in front of a bus). This is an interference engine, so when the timing chain goes the pistons will smash the valves, meaning major rebuild or replace the engine instead of just the timing replacement (thousands extra). After a timing failure, the value of the truck is pretty much only the scrap metal value.

You need to decide how you want to go forward. If you want to get a couple more years out of it, you need to put some money into the timing replacement and hope the transmission doesn't give up shortly after (a significant risk for this trans and mileage). Otherwise, you could sell it now and try to get a little value back out of it, or decide to just drive it until it blows (I certainly wouldn't send my daughter to college with this time bomb).

 

[chefduane]

I'm in the same situation you are with my '98 SOHC 4x. I'd say pull the pan and see if you have timing chain guide parts in the pan. If you do then its probably only a matter of time. You have to make a value judgment... Is it worth the $2k to you to get it fixed based upon the actual value of the car? Probably not, but how much do you reeeaallly like your truck? For me, its just not worth pulling the motor and fixing it. So I keep Mobil-1 in it with regular changes and a Mobil-1 High Mileage filter. I do meticulous maintenance on most every component and system. I have 207k currently on the odo and probably have been running with the guide damage for 20-25k miles. Other than that, she runs like a top and is in excellent condition. I'd like to see 250k out of it but I'll drive her till the chain slips and she bends a valve. I'll then say goodbye to one of the best vehicles I've ever owned and donate her to the local High School auto shop and let the kids wrench on her. Not much of a deduction but she'll go to a worthy cause. Then I'll go buy a new Explorer.

 

[SoNic67]

The tensioners can be replaced from "outside". I would try that first - depending of how bad the guides are at this point, it might help or not.
Other TSB's:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsbs/?tsbmake=FORD&tsbyear=2001&tsbmodel=EXPLORER

 

[boominXplorer]

The tensioners can be replaced from "outside". I would try that first - depending of how bad the guides are at this point, it might help or not.
Other TSB's:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsbs/?tsbmake=FORD&tsbyear=2001&tsbmodel=EXPLORER

I would not try this at 175k mi. If the rear guide is broken at the pivot and you remove the hydraulic tensioner the tension side of the guide will fall and cause way more issues.

 

[koda2000]

IMO, Just drive it until it blows up. If you love it, then look for a low mileage '06-'10 SOHC 4.0L long block to drop in it.

 

[Mflueras]

I'd start saving for a long block. Depending on how loud it is you still have some time. Replacing it with this many miles and no further rebuild is pretty much trowing money away when you can get a long block for about the same money.

 

[boominXplorer]

I'd start saving for a long block. Depending on how loud it is you still have some time. Replacing it with this many miles and no further rebuild is pretty much trowing money away when you can get a long block for about the same money.

I slightly concur. Getting a rebuilt long block you sometimes are not left with a better engine. They run oversize bore bearings and rings which is ok most the time but with aftermarket parts you just never know the quality your getting.

I have torn down plenty of high milage and failed 4.0 sohc engines and the common wear is astonishing. Even with the oil pickup jammed with timing chain debris the crank and bearings always look GOOD even at 200k miles. I believe you can get 400k+ miles out of the bottom end with proper maintenance.

The cam journals have been the only likely source of damage from poor oil conditions and metal debris. Keep good oil in it with a Motorcraft filter will help get the most miles out of the top end.

 

[Mflueras]

I slightly concur. Getting a rebuilt long block you sometimes are not left with a better engine. They run oversize bore bearings and rings which is ok most the time but with aftermarket parts you just never know the quality your getting.

I have torn down plenty of high milage and failed 4.0 sohc engines and the common wear is astonishing. Even with the oil pickup jammed with timing chain debris the crank and bearings always look GOOD even at 200k miles. I believe you can get 400k+ miles out of the bottom end with proper maintenance.

The cam journals have been the only likely source of damage from poor oil conditions and metal debris. Keep good oil in it with a Motorcraft filter will help get the most miles out of the top end.

I hear you and I think that's the case most of the time. However, unless you do it yourself, the mechanic will probably not go through the trouble to clean the oil pan, pick up tube, etc.

My local Autozone can get a reman long block for 2600 with 300 core charge and back it with 3 years unlimited mileage warranty. If it was mine, I'd go to the local junk yard and get a junk motor for the core, swap in the long block, then take my time with the original motor.

 

[Flash]

This is important: Do you hear the chain rattle at cold start up?

If it's making a noise like pinging as you're driving I'm thinking it might be the jackshaft chain which you can get to without taking the engine out.

If that's the problem then replacing the jackshaft tensioner and guides along with replacing the other tensioners should keep you going for 200k more miles.

It's important to see if there's any debris in your oil pan.

 

[davem]

This is important: Do you hear the chain rattle at cold start up?

If it's making a noise like pinging as you're driving I'm thinking it might be the jackshaft chain which you can get to without taking the engine out.

.............

I'm not hearing any rattle/pinging at start up or while idling.

I only hear the noise when driving/under load. It seems like I can hear it under lighter loads than before.

Any idea what the jackshaft chain service&parts might cost ?

 

[Flash]

Any idea what the jackshaft chain service&parts might cost ?

No idea, sorry. I did mine a couple of years ago and I' m not in America.

 

[Tech By Trade]

200 for the timing tool kit. Rock auto has a cloyes chain gear and tensioner kit for around 400 bucks with all the hardware. Around 50 bucks for OEM TTY bolts, 200 worth of good gaskets (don't cheap out with engine tech gaskets) .

 

[Flash]

Around 50 bucks for OEM TTY bolts, 200 worth of good gaskets (don't cheap out with engine tech gaskets) .

What for?

 

[Flash]

It cost me $97USD on 29/01/13 for a chain and tensioner set, left and right (front and rear) and jackshaft from cnsautoparts on ebay.

I replaced everything without needing a timing kit.
Engine purrs like a kitten, seriously, at a red light sometime I think it stalled.

 

[Tech By Trade]

I wouldn't install an ebay kit if you bought it for me. Stick to Cloyes or Ford oem. I did cheap out on the Engine tech gasket kit, and I have a feeling the upper oil pan gasket will be leaking in the future. I had to cut up the rear seal to get it to fit properly. Problem is you need to drop the front dif, or lift the engine to get it out to replace the gasket. Not fun. It is possible to create tools to time the cam shafts, but you have to add up the advantages of the savings and how much your time is worth. At 200 dollars, it was more cost effective for me to purchase the OTC kit, rather then spend a few hours dicking around making tools, and chancing the engine not being timed properly. Also, the TTY bolts, your playing with fire if you don't replace them as they stretch the one and only time they are used, so if you reuse them they may not take the proper torque, and they have a good chance they will break. Don't know about you, but I would rather spend 12 bucks on a bolt for the rear jackshaft gear then try and dig a broken bolt out of the shaft. Now if I were in the middle of nowhere, and it was going to cost me double what it would cost anyone else to work on this engine, I would think about doing a half assed job of it, but if the parts are available at a reasonable price, you might as well do it right.

 

[Flash]

I wouldn't install an ebay kit if you bought it for me.

You do know a lot of reputable retailers sell good brands on Ebay and Amazon don't you?

The jackshaft bolt is a TTY? I didn't know that or if I did I forgot it.

When I asked why to replace the TTY bolts I thought you were talking about head bolts, my question related to why we were taking the head off.

Unfortunately OEM parts for Explorers are extremely expensive from the dealer here if you can get them at all. The Ex wasn't a real big thing here like it is over there.
But for the reasons you mentioned I wouldn't not use new TTY bolts.

$400+$200 USD plus freight and whatever else would cost more than I paid for the car.
I've done 30,000kms on my Ebay chain set so far with no problems and it only has to stagger along for another 20k probably until the Touareg moves up to do the heavy lifting.
The Ex will then die a slow death doing the 5 minute run to my wife's work and maybe the occasional weekend squirt up the beach.

For me it was worthwhile taking a chance on the cheap parts. I wasn't aware at the time just how cheap those parts were, I'd probably hesitate now.

 

[rb142]

If you can't get new TTY bolts then use some non-TTY bolts. But don't reuse TTY bolts, especially on timing components that are only held in place by the bolt tension. That is just begging for a failure.