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U.S. Expands Probe Into Ford Explorers Over Carbon Monoxide Concerns

fireftr

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fireftr

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You know, I’ve heard of people “Seafoaming” their engines where they use Seafoam in the intake to help remove carbon buildup(Google it). This, in turn, produces a lot of white smoke out the exhaust on some vehicles. Maybe that’s a way to test. Get it to smoke and see if it can be identified where it’s coming into the cabin. Long shot, but could be a relatively simple test for someone to try.




True. These days, they are pretty reactive.

Guess it would depend on outside temperature as well. It may go into closed loop quickly, but the cats might take longer to warm up and be fully operational. I guess the test could be repeated after driving around for a while to see if the CO concentration changes.
Folks-it’s coming from the exhaust, but under the hood, (manifolds) and is getting pulled into the interior through the ventilation system.
Which way does air flow into a car? Right- from the front. And obviously, increased speed = increased air flow.
The stainless steel exhaust pipes in these fairly new vehicles do not rust.
Ever drive over a dead skunk?
 




fireftr

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Simply put, my point is holes or no holes in the under body of a PUI, untreated exhaust should not be leaking from the exhaust system.
EXACTLY!
 




fireftr

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I agree that CO may be leaking from a cracked manifold or just from the tailpipe, but either way it is entering the vehicle via the many holes and seams that Ford left unsealed around the rear end and underbody.

if the CO leak is at the manifold prior to the catalytic converter, the CO level is typically 100 times higher (from 20,000 to 50,000ppm, or 2-5%), compared to under 200ppm when the catalytic converter is working properly. But depending on conditions (worse under cold start, for example), untreated exhaust can have over 1000x more CO.
How do you know there are many holes and seams left unsealed?
 




blwnsmoke

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Folks-it’s coming from the exhaust, but under the hood, (manifolds) and is getting pulled into the interior through the ventilation system.
Which way does air flow into a car? Right- from the front. And obviously, increased speed = increased air flow.
The stainless steel exhaust pipes in these fairly new vehicles do not rust.
Ever drive over a dead skunk?


Sighs... if only you knew what you were talking about.

First, The the cracked exhaust manifolds were on the 3.7, not the 3.5. There has not been one person on here that has ever confirmed their Exhaust manifold was cracked on their 3.5.

Second, Ford has already shown MANY of the PIUs that had many open areas from up fitters running wires through the tailgates for lights with zero or very pour sealing.

Third, There are vents right behind the bumper that (like a flap system) was/is allowing exhaust to get in. These are/were being replaced by far sturdier flaps that will not open as willingly preventing the fumes from getting in.

Fourth, Exhaust that exits the mufflers swirls around the tailgate area and is constantly there doing circles. One can see this on a very cold day... it is so bad that when it is extremely cold and your vehicle hasn't warmed up fully, you can't even see out the rear when you accelerate quickly. So yes, with pour flaps not sealing, air system on and the exhaust swirling around less then a foot from the flaps, it CAN enter the rear.
 




bigtexan99

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Which way does air flow into a car? Right- from the front. And obviously, increased speed = increased air flow.

As stated by the above post, you are clearly incorrect. I too have witnessed the smoke from the exhaust (when outside temps are low) swirling around the back of the liftgate.
 




Quicksilver

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So I'm not gonna take the time to read thru the whole thread to see what has been covered but I've got some experience and some inside info on this issue.

I've got over 100K miles on my ExSpt and noticed even back when it was new that if I cracked the sunroof open on a nice day and drove for more than 30-45 minutes, I'd get a headache. Back then the CO issue wasn't known or at least I hadn't heard about it. At the time I thought the sound from the windnoise was giving me the headache, It happened enough times that I just didn't use the sunroof any more.

I know someone who was at the test facility within the last 6 months where NHTSA was testing for exhaust intrusion into the cabin on the PI Explorers. Yes, they used colored smoke and interior cameras as one of the tests. My source told me one of the biggest offenders allowing the exhaust fumes/CO into the rear hatch area was the moonroof drain, my guy said I should put tape over it. Looking it over it appeared to be a perfect size for a foam earplug and since I ride motorcycles I have plenty of them. Done and fixed. As far as flaps and other sources of intrusion, I'll just let the debate rage on.

Earplug in Sunroof Drain.jpg
 




peterk9

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That's a new revelation. FYI here is a diagram of the moonroof drain tube locations.

Peter

14 Explorer Drain Tubes.jpg
 




Odrapnew

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Hmmm, wonder how many of the people that have issues have sunroof. I could see that being an issue, especially if you have the sunroof open.

Do PI Explorers have the option of a sunroof?
 




peterk9

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I believe this came up before and the answer was that the PIU does not have the moonroof option. One reason may be that it would take away places tp mount antennas.

Peter
 




bigtexan99

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If air comes in thru the drain holes into the cabin, how come rain water does not come thru the drain holes and into the cabin?
 




peterk9

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If air comes in thru the drain holes into the cabin, how come rain water does not come thru the drain holes and into the cabin?
It's much easier to draw in gases/air than to pull water in. If I understand his issue, it happens when the moonroof is open. The draft created would cause the fumes to be pulled in through the rear opening. He would not have the same issue when it's closed due to the rain.

Peter
 




Odrapnew

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So, the sunroof drain may affect civilian versions, but doesn't explain the PIU or versions that don't have the sunroof.

Also, many of the complaints were with all windows closed.

So, I can believe this may be a source, but still doesn't explain the others that claim to have this issue without a sunroof.
 




peterk9

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So, the sunroof drain may affect civilian versions, but doesn't explain the PIU or versions that don't have the sunroof.

Also, many of the complaints were with all windows closed.

So, I can believe this may be a source, but still doesn't explain the others that claim to have this issue without a sunroof.
As you stated, it is only a source. There are other sources that have been identified as well. This is just a new one to consider. Actually I have posted that drain tube diagram several times and must admit I never actually noticed that one of them goes to the back of the vehicle.:oops:

Peter
 




XLT16

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That's a new revelation. FYI here is a diagram of the moonroof drain tube locations.

Peter

View attachment 156744

Ok but where does the water go that use to flow thru the moon roof drain?

I just drove back from Florida to Ontario, two solid days of driving and no issues with headaches or fumes.

Maybe I'm lucky on that front with this vehicle. Although I did experience a issue with the throttle body while in Florida. It failed as have many built in around the same time mine was Aug 2015->April 2016. Engine goes to idle when it happens and won't respond to the throttle, fortunately I was on a side street at low speed when it happened and not traveling I75 at 70mph. That would have been scary. Replaced under warranty, obviously a design or supplier issue based on the widespread failure rate but I never received anything from Ford, U.S.. based owners did. A full thread on this forum about that, seems mine was a little long in the tooth, most failed quicker than mine within months of being in service. The dealership was very aware of the issue. Disappointed in Ford not notifying me as there was service bulletins etc. and my build date , model all met the criteria.
 




peterk9

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Ok but where does the water go that use to flow thru the moon roof drain?....................
The water that goes through that particular drain would normally run out along the side of the liftgate. I would guess that if it is plugged that the water would likely back up toward the moonroof. Not sure if there is a connection between it and the other drains. If not, it may begin to leak inside, but that is only a guess. :dunno:

Peter
 




Mdkdm

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I just had the voluntary recall done on my 17 XLT. The report only mentioned the rear hatch seal and reprogramming of the A/C (haven't had any of the other TSBs done previous). My problem was never terrible, but it was definitely noticeable at times and gave me a headache a few times. The changes seem to have helped. The exhaust issue was always worse in warmer weather, and it was warm-ish (over 80) when I left the dealership.

I went WOT a few times on the way home (merging onto highway and then to pass others) and didn't notice any exhaust smell. I had Max A/C on with recirculate and also had the rear A/C on high. You can tell when the recirculate is turned off automatically with the reprogram since the air power isn't as strong (same as when you manually turn off recirculate). The light on the recirculate button doesn't turn off when it does this, and it automatically adjusts back once you aren't going WOT.

I'll have to wait for the weather to get into the 90s and 100s before I make my final judgement, but it's looking good so far.
 




metroplex

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I've been running a CO detector in my 2018 XLT (Build date Oct 2017) and the peak reading was 14 ppm. I rarely use recirculate with front AND rear A/C. I started using both A/C systems and recirculate, and my CO detector never beeped. But out of curiosity I hit the peak button today and saw it had gone up to 48 ppm. At times I could smell PCV vapor in the cabin if the engine oil was getting close to its change interval and I drove the car hard.
 




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