URGENT! Oil and Coolant Leak!

[tshaner]

Ok, so I'm coming home today and folks are telling me my engine is smoking! I get home & look under the hood...

Oil on #5 plug wire, coolant droplets leaking under vehicle as well as oil. Does not appear that oil and coolant have "mixed" as in a blown head gasket. Engine running fine, no misses, etc.

Could this be the now famous lower intake leak?
I would rather that than head gaskets. I could do a compression test but I am looking for a little reassurance that it is "only" the lower intake since this is much easier to do IMHO. Any thoughts out there?

 

[IgotTwo]

Well to keep it simple, you could check the intake manifold bolts to see if they are loose.....I just put an intake gasket on my 94 and guess what ? the bolts were loose.
I had a rear oil leak.. you seem like you have much more going on..... but take a look see.

Be mericful, I think they only torque to 72IN\lbs something like that. My point: Don't "LEAN" into them and "drive em home." (you may already know that)

I haven't hear it from any of the other guys but when I put my intake manifold gasket in, I used "blue thread lock" on the intake manifold bolts. If they came loose once!.....(fill in the blank)

Let see if the troops have any throughts or comments on that one.

 

[tshaner]

Well, not much response out there, but after thinking it through I decided to go ahead with the gasket replacement. 10 hours later: replaced lower, fuel rail and upper gaskets, valve cover gaskets. Started right up, but leaked oil at higher RPM's. Re-checked and found a loose bolt in left valve cover at the upper corner. I decided to pull off the upper intake again and replace the valve cover gasket (made sure all was tight). While I was at it, I pulled the fuel rail and cleaned the injectors and relplaced the o-rings. Also replaced the PCV valve and grommet since the old grommet was cracked. Noticed this once all the crud was off the valve cover. Second "excursion" into the engine took 3 hours.
Started right up again, but with a loud tick. Turned out to be the belt tensioner. Fixed that & took it for a spin.
No leaks or smoke (fingers crossed), and amazingly, a much improved throttle response. Most likely due to the injector cleaining & o-rings. Time will tell, but it LOOKS like it's fixed. Aside from a broken retaining clip on 1 injectors electrical connector.....
Felt good to do this myself, but what a PAIN! It was easier the second time in though.....

Long post, but just had to share....

 

[IgotTwo]

Well. looks like you went the full 10 yards.... and then some but it seems you got it and .....so..... good work.
I just put in an intake manifold on my 94 and it IS a PITA.....its all the cleaning... and all the "might as well do this too."

If there is a connector to be broken I will break it. haha
I hate those electrical connectors and the injector ones are hard to get at. I know there must be a special tools but:
I took thin pieces of aluminun and bent them into a "J"s with long leg. Sliding them into each sides of the connector with a gentle outward prying and pull will slide them right off.........without breaking. So I keep em in my tool box under "self constructed tools." I use em on the one sided clip connectors too .... why not ?
(thinking- self constructed tools could be a good forum section)

Why cross your fingers ? of course you did great job Enjoy driving it
Glad to hear it worked out.

 

[tshaner]

Maybe not so great.... Leaking OIL!
Intake and Valve cover areas seem dry. Looks like maybe a rear seal, but oil also on drivers side of bell housing. Can't tell where from, but it doesn't LOOK like the intake. Runs fine, Temp fine, good power. Just seems to "blow" oil at 2000+ rpm. I'm thinking rear seal, but odd that it would happen now - unless being sealed tight everywhere else the oil found a new weak link. This is driving me nuts! Even put in some Flourescent dye to try to track it. Only saw it dripping down but can't see where from! No coolant loss, just the #$%# oil. Maybe rear seal and / or oil sensor?
Any thoughts? Again, timing would suggest lower intake didn't seal, but it feels dry up there. Good vacuum, etc.

 

[IgotTwo]

Rear Seal? I got fooled on that one too. After all that work......are you sitting down?

The oil on the bell housing may be the clue The intake gasket may be leaking oil there. At the very rear. Mine puddled oil and then dripped down the bell housing too before I fixed it. Stick you hand back there you may be able to find oil puddles right where the bell housing meets the block. (this is a "ledge" at 12:00 )
Without looking at it? Its the gasket!
Did you use any sealant?

You may know this...if so I'll still babble a little.
When I went to Ford to buy a lower intake manifold gasket the service guy was nice and told me you have to put sealant here and sealant here and here (basically on the corners and edges) I thought there was an upgraded gasket that did not require all that BS so......I went to NAPA. Now, this guy I go to is pretty good and we looked at two different gasket types. One was "flat" that required sealant. I could see why, it had to be gooped up for a good seal. The other had raised ribbed edges all around (which I think addresses the problem of rear and side leaks and the need for messing around with sealant. That is the one I got. I think it was a "Victor." So mine went in "dry'....ie 'sans any sealant."

So far, so good.... mine is holding in there nicely and that car has been pounded with alot of miles in the last month.... up to Cape Cod (from NJ) and back and a few other long rides.

Also I think I remember seeing a post on how to seal up a intake gasket without taking it all part...... something about a silicone shim or dabbing it, but I'll be d&^%ed if I can find it.......... maybe someone can help or tell me I dream that last one up.

" strong mind...... strong body grasshoper"
When you prevail... just think of the smile that you'll have on your face !

 

[tshaner]

Well, $#$#$*!.....

I used a Fel-Pro gasket and DID use sealant. Right where the Haynes manual said to.... Are you saying that using the sealant may have caused the problem?

Wierd thing - It feels dry all around the valve covers and lower intake seam. It IS dripping oil out of the weep hole under the tranny (rear seal area) but also on the bell housing on the drivers side. I HAD a problem with a valve cover there, but again it feels dry. Also put some dye in and could not locate any leaks.... COULD still be the lower gasket though... I'll look into it more later today....

 

[IgotTwo]

No, sealant is fine... it the variables when using it .....did you miss a spot? shift the mainfold around while putting it on? like in a few tries to align it which might have disturbed the bead?

If the rear intake is leaking back there, the oil will come out of the bottom of the bell housing. Mine did.
Can you get a mirror and and peek where the bell meets the block.... I know you have to be a circus performer to get back there. I hate to do this to you but.... this is what I had to do because I SWORE it was the rear seal too.
I was informed by one of our fine forum members that many make the same error and think it is the rear seal when if fact its the gasket. He was right. So I'll pass the suggestion on to you.

Reseaonableness test: Why would the rear seal suddenly quit when you where working on the intake manifold and your problem is a classic gasket problem.

I know it is not what you want to hear after all that work. ?? I could be wrong???

 

[tshaner]

You are not wrong. I just cleaned it all off, drove it down the interstate and checked for oil. Pooled on bell housing! Did the contortionist thing and used a mirror to see behind the block. Yep - leaking at lower manifold!

Question: Since the new gasket is different from what the Hayne's manual describes - where to use RTV?

Around water jacket ports (gasket has rubber here)?
Front and rear 'sealing surface' (curved area?)?
Front and rear sections manifold to head (4 leakers)?

I just want to get this right and not go in a 3rd or 4th time!

Any thoughts out there?

(even so - better than the rear seal - I would rather pay with my diginity & ignorance than with my cash$)

 

[tshaner]

Update, for any who are interested:

I spoke to several Ford techs, and they all said the same thing. NO Sealant with the new style gasket!
It's ok to put a little in the 4 corners, but that is the only place. Ford usually puts them in with no sealant at all!

I guess the new gasket is that much better!

Anyone try this? (I suppose I will be...)

 

[IgotTwo]

Well lets hope some of the others troops chime in... the only answer I can come up with is one you are not going to like. This may be better than Did you do this?

Here's my checklist before I put back together:
-Cleaned everything in sight and all mating surfaces with light emery paper ... all intakes were "stuffed" so nothing went where it should not have. both on engine and manifold.

-Brake cleaned with a rag all over so all surfaces were oil free dry and "shinny"

- Examined intake for the obvious warping (I have a good straight metal bar for this knida stuff I use all the time) a file will work. I cleaned up rough spots on manifold with file and paper ...not much.... just some to get light pitting. Shinny and looked good to match and seal

-I did a dry run placing the intake manifold, noting the over hang on the gasket, left and right, forward and aft to make sure it was even and centered. The new gasket tends to want to go it own way because of the chopped off "V" shape and "walk"

-With the intake manifold on the block and noting where the gasket should over hangs and by how much , I was pretty confident is "in place"

-I gooped the intake bolts with blue lock tite..... hand tighten em and did the torque sequence. First 1/2 torque, then all the way.

"any warp" , "clean", "pitied," "in place" I think are some of the operative words.

Any help?
Yeah.... I'll fall on my sword for being **** retentive.


You have to call the ball! I think you may have some wrap, maybe in the intake manifold or the gasket needs some more help in there.
Wrap: That was the first thing the guys at the Ford dealer told me watch out for, but they are trained to preach diasater. How they think they are creditible is beyond me.

Lets see if some greater minds want to comment.

 

[tshaner]

I'll check for warp, and here is what I was told about the sealant in this case. It not only will not allow the gasket to seal, it will act as sort of a conduit for oil and actually help cause leaks. The AllData notes, the actual dealer info, says to put sealant in the four corners only.
The Haynes manual says to put it in a lot more areas, and I think that may be were the problem lies. At least when using the new Ford gasket. My gut tells me that is what is going on. It was not leaking this much BEFORE the "repair" and the old gasket had no sealer...
Also no vacuum leaks, and I suspect warpage would show a vacuum leak. So... this saturday we begin anew..

 

[IgotTwo]

sounds right with all the other info...go for it
sometimes you get the bear..... sometimes the bear gets you..
easy for me to say... don't get pissed.... take your time...**** happens

 

[tshaner]

I plan on taking my time. I'm upset that I have to do it again, but would rather it be something I can fix than anything worse. One bolt on a valve cover is stripped, so I plan on taking advantage of having the manifold out and putting in a helicoil to fix that little problem as well. I think this time will get it......

"No matter how hard you try, you can't baptize a cat"