Use rear door speakers or not?

[aldive]

I have read in some posts that some folks do not use rear door speakers at all.

Pleasae explain this concept and your thoughts on it.

Thanks....

 

[leenjen]

the front stage is the most important.
everyone has different opinions of what they believe sounds good. here is my take on where the world of car audio SQ competitions is headed:

i like the way SQ was done a few years ago, and that is how i have my vehicles set up. the front stage was always the main part. usually component sets in the kick panels. also some speakers running off of less power in the front doors. a pair of 2 ways or low powered components in the rear. and a subwoofer or subs in the trunk. {keep in mind that this is just a basic example of the way sq setups were done (front stage, rear fill, low frequencies by subwoofers)}.

now it seems that SQ is headed another way... MONO!!
that's right, mono . it seems that the popular opinion (not mine) is that music sounds better coming from only one source. that less is better. there should be no rear fill, because that is anti-front stage. and music should sound as if it's coming from the center of the dash and no where else. i now see sq competitors with only 3 speakers (2 full range speakers mounted in the center of the dash, and a small subwoofer mounted higher up in the dash facing the windshield). i hate this sound. why even have stereo? is mono going to take over? if you cant tell the difference between right and left channels, why bother having 2, 4, or 6 channels?



everyone has there opinion. i like my music to sound full, clear, and powerful. i want it to sound like there's a live perfomance in my car. i dont want to have the mono AM radio that was in my 73 roadrunner

 

[Alec]

I think in our trucks, with such a big volume, the rears are still important. Right now I have RF 2ways in all 4 corners, if I did it again I would put 3 ways in the front, but still put the 2 ways in the rear. If you're gonna do the front anyway, I highly suggest replacing the rears, but just with some halfway decent 5x7 2ways.

 

[Mike 92 XLT]

Wow Lee, is that what is happening? I haven't kept up on the competition circuit in awhile.

This is my take on it. Like Lee said, the front stage is the most important aspect of a car audio system. Like Lee also said, I want it to sound like there is a live performance in my car. I think the best way to do that is to create the most accurate imaging and soundstage possible. Basically, it should sound like the band is playing on your hood, and you should be able to pinpoint each individual performer/instrument, etc. when you close your eyes. In my system, I can even tell that the back-up singers are behind the main performer!

Now, in order to truly recreate the live music ambiance, rear speakers should be employed to mimic the reflections of sound off the side and rear walls of the concert venue. However, the band, instruments and vocals should remain anchored up front. In order to really do this properly, you need to use DSP and time-delay processing. Plus, the rear speaker locations in the Explorer are awful. I couldn't hear them even when I still had the JBL system in mine, and if anyone sits in the rear seats, their knees block the speakers.

So, until I have the time/money/right car/money/5.1 surround sound/money , no rear speakers for me.


peace

Mike

 

[nosaj122081]

Like the other poster said, to get rear speakers to sound like natural reflections, echos, or what-have-you, you need a digital signal processor, or at the very least a time delay unit of some kind. I personally really dislike rear speakers, nothing ruins a properly imaged front soundstage quite like a set of rear speakers. Non-DSP rear speakers really ruin the natural sound of the music (when was the last time you went to a concert and the band was playing from every direction at the same time?), and reak havok on the fronts. Take the money you'd spend on rear speakers and move up to the next price bracket in front speakers, much more worth it IMHO.

 

[aldive]

Thanks guys, now several more questions:

(1) what are these signal processors, where do they go, what do they cost, where does one get them
(2) no concert has ever sounded as good as a recording srtudeo, corr4ect?

Thanks....

 

[nosaj122081]

A DSP is just another piece of equipment, usually just a plain lookin' box. Depending on what kind you get determines where you put it, I've used to love my Sony ES 7850 + Sony DSP setup, 'cause you could control the DSP with the head. I mounted it up under the dash. They can get to be a fairly expensive piece if you get a good one, check out www.mmxpress.com for pricing some, if you email or call those guys they'll give you their honest opinions on what they think is good. I never really got into them much other than the Sony I used to have, but I have one in my home theater and really love farting around with it, makes some interesting effects.

IMO studio music tends to sound "synthetic". Its been doctored, and just doesn't appeal to me quite as much as a raw concert recording. My favorite CD's to listen to in my last SQ car were Metallica's S&M, man, did it sound great. Thats just personal opinion though, I'd rather list to concert recordings than studio any day.

 

[Kontrol-Trak]

Originally posted by nosaj122081
A DSP is just another piece of equipment, usually just a plain lookin' box. Depending on what kind you get determines where you put it, I've used to love my Sony ES 7850 + Sony DSP setup, 'cause you could control the DSP with the head.

Some decks come with built-in DSP also. But its performance is usually very poor. My JBL system deck has DSP...lol no need to comment on its "effect"

 

[nosaj122081]

LOL... Yeah, our 95 EB had that DSP setup. In all honesty, I thought they all sounded pretty much the same, some were just quieter than others, hehe .

 

[Brian's98XLT]

If you really want to here a great system you need to listen to a car that has a Dolby Digital System in it. I did one at work with all Alpine system and the thing sounded great.
I stopped competing years ago because I think IASCA had there head up there behinds. Every year you had to do a complete redesign for new rules. It just got to expensive. I looked at getting back into it but even working in the business I do not have the kind of cash that some of these guys spend.I have more impotant thing like my Kids to spend money on.

 

[nosaj122081]

I've never heard a car DD setup, but my home theater is DD and I agree, AMAZING.

I'll tell ya', I've been to a few IASCA and USAC competitions, as well as a couple MECA shows, and the MECA seem the least of the hell-bent-on-money shows. Just kinda old fashion competitions, I really liked the feel of them. If I recall, the do have pro's and amateurs, and they use RMS@14.4V amp power as opposed to rated, and have fair classes (I forget how they do it, something like power/# of woofers). I like how laid back it was. Just a thought, I think the 2 MECA comps. I went to were more "fun" than the serious IASCA's.

 

[leenjen]

Originally posted by Brian's98XLT
If you really want to here a great system you need to listen to a car that has a Dolby Digital System in it. I did one at work with all Alpine system and the thing sounded great.
I stopped competing years ago because I think IASCA had there head up there behinds. Every year you had to do a complete redesign for new rules. It just got to expensive. I looked at getting back into it but even working in the business I do not have the kind of cash that some of these guys spend.I have more impotant thing like my Kids to spend money on.

that's how i feel. i like the sound of a true dolby digital surround. and i hate the way IASCA/USAC comps are changing each year. the rules are different every year. and judging is done differently at each event it seems.

 

[jjr007]

The Best sounding concerts I have been too, have been when I was right up front next to the stage. Usually in this case the stage speakers are to the right and left of me, with quite a bit of the sound coming from the instrument speakers in front of me. In my truck I kept the fader one tick towards the front to mimic this sound.
The worst sounding concerts I have been to, have been when I have been mid room back, with the echos coming off the walls. In my opinion, any echo or time delay is just distortion of the original sound, and undisirable.

 

[jjr007]

One thing I forgot to mention, I have the premium system which allegedly has 20 watts per channel (20X4= total 80 watts), so if I didn't use the rear speakers, I would be turning my 80 watt system into a 40 watt system. It does not make much sense to me to not use the rear speakers. If you fade to the front one or two ticks, you get the front imaging you want, without appreciably reducing total volume.