weird camber problems

[Xeek]

I have a rc 4" lift. Ball joints are new as of April. High quality moogs and I've checked they're still good. Tie rods are still tight. Bearings make no noises.
But one day all is fine. Park and notice one tire has neg camber. Another drive now both are neg camber. Then get lucky and notice both are straight. Tire wear supports it has neg camber most of the time.

Worn out springs???? I'm so confused

 

[FR-425]

Did you jack it up yet and see if there is any wheel movement?

 

[Xeek]

Yes I have. All good. Only movement I get is side to side but I can watch the tie rod move and try to spin the steering box when I do it. So its all tight.

 

[FR-425]

If the radius arm bushings are get'n worn it will leave it sitting with negative camber after rolling backward more so than if you come to a stop rolling forward.

This is even more pronounced if you have too much toe-in because when rolling backward the tires are pushed apart (toe-in, in reverse = toe-out)

The pivot bushings will spoil the camber as well.

So since the ball joints check out that's all that is left.

Double check that the camber alignment bushing has not moved. (loose pinch bolts)

It is necessary when replacing the ball joints on the TTB that the pinch bolt be left loose until the full weight of the truck is down. If this is not done right the upper ball joint ends up carrying the weight and will come loose or fail prematurely.

 

[Xeek]

I dodnt have the pinch bolt loose. But drive it straight to the alignment shop after. I did a lift and ball joints at once.

I will check the radius arm bushings. But I've never gone in reverse for it to happen. I did have good camber once and toe out before. So confusing

 

[Anime]

The pinch bolts don't have to be loose for the adjuster bushings to move, they can turn some all on their own if the surfaces are slick enough, or if you're using multi-position/adjustable bushings.

Other than loose ball joints/wheel bearings/lug nuts, it can be the radius arm bushings or axle pivot bushings as mentioned. They don't even have to be bad or damaged, just worn out or soft.

Keep in mind a good bit of variation in camber is actually normal, especially if it's not on a completely level surface, which just means the suspension is working. Same with weight and load - putting some weight in the back will raise the front some and give positive camber, removing weight from the back will give negative camber up front.

As long as the tires wear evenly, that's what really matters.

 

[Xeek]

Yea I stayed on a level surface, no.load in bed. Still acts up. Ill go over some things and see what I find. Tires do show wear from neg camber.

 

[Anime]

How the alignment looks visually doesn't mean much except as a rough estimate as to whether the camber/toe is WAY off.

In a lot of ways, it's better to go on how the tires are wearing over a period of time, that tells you what the alignment is really doing.

Setting up a static suspension so the alignment is "perfect" won't give you even tire wear, you actually want a bit of toe-in and some negative camber to counter the forces that tweak the suspension when the vehicle is moving forward under power and taking corners.

If there is wear on the inner shoulder of the tires, less negative camber is what you want, either via an alignment bushing, or even throwing a washer under the lower spring mount.

 

[FR-425]

Hey Xeek,

Did your lift come with the +2 degree dual angle adjusters?

The stock bushings will not work for 4" lifts. With everything new, the best camber you will get with the stock adjusters is 0 degree. (needs to be 1 to 1.5 degree positive)

The Superlift part # for the +2 degree adjusters is --- 1120

The hole is bored at a steeper angle (2 degree's)

Your best bet is to take it to a 4x4 specialty shop.

They will understand that the factory specs are not the best for a lifted fat tire truck.

They will also understand that it must be adjusted under full load, test driven and readjusted several times to be sure it's right.

Four Wheeler's Supply in Phoenix took their time and got mine absolutely perfect.
Holding up for two years so far.

There is a service notice from Ford regarding the premature ball joint failures for the Dana 35 TTB.

This is what I'm getting at when I say "loaded" (trying to clarify)

The lower ball joint is the "weight" bearing "loaded" ball joint.

The upper is a "follower" ball joint. (only used for "positioning")

If care is not taken to insure that the lower ball joint is carrying the "load" the lower ball joint will not be seated fully and fail prematurely.


Here is a pic of the different types:

The one on the left is the "loaded" lower ball joint: Notice the spring under the bottom cup.

This spring must be compressed by the weight of the vehicle while the upper ball joint is still loose.

It is difficult and tedious to set camber with tires on and the truck sitting on the tires. Which makes it difficult, but not impossible to get at the adjusters.--- PITA.

As a result most shops will do a quickie with the wheels off for the whole alignment and send you on your way with brand new ball joints that are going to fail in 4-6 months! Not to mention improper camber.

I learned the hard way with my first DIY ball joint job on my 94' Ex.

They lasted 4 months.

Then I found the right-up from Ford and did it the right way the second time.

NOTE: THE PINCH BOLT MUST BE "NEW"....CAN NOT REUSE THE PINCH BOLT.

Use your old pinch bolt to drive it to the alignment shop and when their all done and ready to lock it down give them the new bolt.

Torque for the pinch bolt is 85 ft-lb.

DO NOT LET THEM TIGHTEN THE PINCH BOLT WITH THE WHEELS OFF THE GROUND!

 

[4x4junkie]

If the tires are wearing on the inside, it could be negative camber, OR the wheels could be toed-out (or both).

What I would suggest is park the truck on a level surface with one front tire atop a pair of steel plates having metal dowels longitudinally with the truck between them, and a block or something of equal thickness under the opposite front tire (bearing grease can also be used in lieu of dowels, though is messy), and then bounce the truck slightly to settle the suspension and ensure any bind between the front tires is relieved, and see what the camber looks like. This should at least tell you if there's a camber issue at all.

Another thing to look for is if your steering linkage is pulled up out of line with the axle beams (drop pitman arm mismatched with your lift). This can cause the toe alignment to vary quite a lot, causing the camber to do what it's doing as the tires are trying to drive toward or away from each other as the toe changes.