When did they switch from 55R5W to 55R5S (SOLVED)

[Harpua216]

Found a good donor car and pulled the transmission. Tag on it states its a 55R5S, though most parts catalogs state the 2002's have the 55R5W.

donor car was a police car built 5/22/2002. when did they switch over to the "S"?

My car is an 04 AWD Mountaineer with the 55R5S.

being that i just need gaskets, some other externals and maybe some extra bolts etc.,., for the swap, question is, are the extension gaskets, filters and other gaskets the same in both?

I know they are near identical other than gear ratios in a few gears.

also, any time saver techniques, tricks or advice regarding the swap would be awesome! Thank You!

 

[TechGuru]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C3_transmission#5R44E.2F5R55E.2FN.2FS.2FW

The 5R55W began use in November 2000 for the 3rd generation Ford Explorer and 2001 Ford Ranger. Mostly specific difference between 5R55W (wide shift) and 5R55S (synchronic shift) is a different overdrive planet gear ratio.

 

[TechGuru]

I now realize that does not answer your question, but as long as the numbers match...

How much did you pay for the donor?

This looks like a good deal to me: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5R55S-2002-...MANUFACTURED-FORD-SPORT-MERCURY-/261162793125

 

[Harpua216]

I now realize that does not answer your question, but as long as the numbers match...

How much did you pay for the donor?

This looks like a good deal to me: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5R55S-2002-...MANUFACTURED-FORD-SPORT-MERCURY-/261162793125

thank you for your response. I have found that it is an S model transmission and I feel this is an easy install compared to other stuff I have done as long as I have the proper jacks.

I paid $450 for the unit out of an 02 with 88K on it, which i saw the actual title of the car and the car which it came out of. it had the rattle and his mechanic said no way, so he pulled the transmission for someone who didnt show up. I the guy was driving the truck, straight up dude too.

My next question is, should I have grabbed the transfer case that was pulled to? are there any electronics to any of the control modules that wont match up or throw codes?

 

[imp]

A really BIG problem with these 3rd. gen. M.F. r's is that they look at relative shaft speeds all the time. What that means is that, substituting a "W" for an "S", or vice versa, will likely throw mismatched shaft speeds, read as "3rd. gear ratio incorrect", etc. Then ya got problems. The PCM is installed consistent with the transmission. Confuse it, and it bites back. imp.

 

[Harpua216]

A really BIG problem with these 3rd. gen. M.F. r's is that they look at relative shaft speeds all the time. What that means is that, substituting a "W" for an "S", or vice versa, will likely throw mismatched shaft speeds, read as "3rd. gear ratio incorrect", etc. Then ya got problems. The PCM is installed consistent with the transmission. Confuse it, and it bites back. imp.

I agree with this. thats why I opted for only throwing the actual transmission that was already in there, which i have, by shear luck, accomplished.

but i thought i saw a mention that the xfer case from donor vehicle should also be replaced for some electrical reason.

 

[Harpua216]

A really BIG problem with these 3rd. gen. M.F. r's is that they look at relative shaft speeds all the time. What that means is that, substituting a "W" for an "S", or vice versa, will likely throw mismatched shaft speeds, read as "3rd. gear ratio incorrect", etc. Then ya got problems. The PCM is installed consistent with the transmission. Confuse it, and it bites back. imp.

Just got done pulling the "old" transmission from my 2004 mounty. Tag reads 12LP-CA which means the wrong transmission was put in the car. And you (so far) are exactly right Imp. My symptoms all pop on the OBD as incorrect gear ratio, solenoid and EPC, which i was ready to give a go at replacing. Luckily i have automoblie-OCD and had to pull the thing.

I have the S with the tag 2L2P-BA now and will put it in this week.

Question Imp- im not crazy on this right? Mechanically speaking, what you said above is enough to give me the symptoms i was experiencing. O/D blinking. 2-3 flare or OD blink starting on the top of 3rd gear?

Thanks

 

[imp]

Just got done pulling the "old" transmission from my 2004 mounty. Tag reads 12LP-CA which means the wrong transmission was put in the car. And you (so far) are exactly right Imp. My symptoms all pop on the OBD as incorrect gear ratio, solenoid and EPC, which i was ready to give a go at replacing. Luckily i have automoblie-OCD and had to pull the thing.

I have the S with the tag 2L2P-BA now and will put it in this week.

Question Imp- im not crazy on this right? Mechanically speaking, what you said above is enough to give me the symptoms i was experiencing. O/D blinking. 2-3 flare or OD blink starting on the top of 3rd gear?

Thanks

@Harpua216

"Question Imp- im not crazy on this right?"

No, you're not. PCM looks for slipping clutches and/or bands, and Torque Converter Clutch problems by comparing shaft speeds relative to one-another, as well as engine speed to transmission input shaft speed. Obviously, it's programming is based on knowing the gear ratios present. Throw in gears which turn at other than expected speeds, it thinks something is out of whack in the transmission. A possible "fix" for using a "W" where an "S" had been before would be to install a "W" PCM. However, a helluva lot of research would be needed regarding PCM connection differences, possible ABS and other module questions, in short, unless someone has done that, and can verify they did, I wouldn't try it. I like challenges, but that's stretching things a bit much.

 

[Harpua216]

@Harpua216

"Question Imp- im not crazy on this right?"

No, you're not. PCM looks for slipping clutches and/or bands, and Torque Converter Clutch problems by comparing shaft speeds relative to one-another, as well as engine speed to transmission input shaft speed. Obviously, it's programming is based on knowing the gear ratios present. Throw in gears which turn at other than expected speeds, it thinks something is out of whack in the transmission. A possible "fix" for using a "W" where an "S" had been before would be to install a "W" PCM. However, a helluva lot of research would be needed regarding PCM connection differences, possible ABS and other module questions, in short, unless someone has done that, and can verify they did, I wouldn't try it. I like challenges, but that's stretching things a bit much.

yeah. i like to stay as far away from the PCM as possible. I think what they did is overfilled the trans and somehow got the pressure right enough to sell it to me, who fell in love with the condition of the body (practically no rust, even underneath).

I really can say that i never felt like the W would give out on me and i felt like the codes and OD was not being truthful about the condition of the transmission. I actually think this W is still good, just not for the PCM that I have. When i bought it i knew the trans had been replaced, i just didnt think it was by the hacks that i bought it from, i truly thought it was done by a roadside car sales shop from the old sticker on the car.

I have a funny feeling I will be replacing the engine after the winter, but who knows. I would be happy to get the winter outta her.

Thanks for the reply, after researching to make sure I had the right trans. i came across my old post. after re-reading your post, i knew it was the wrong trans before i even took it out.

lastly, is there a flex plate on the trans? mine doesnt have one now and i dont believe these trucks have them..

thanks again, Imp

 

[imp]

@Harpua216 Don't understand. The torque converter must be fastened to something spun by the engine, typically a "flexplate", so called because they are stamped from thin steel, as opposed to a flywheel, much heavier, used with manual trans. If you have no flexplate, what turns the converter? imp

 

[Harpua216]

@Harpua216 Don't understand. The torque converter must be fastened to something spun by the engine, typically a "flexplate", so called because they are stamped from thin steel, as opposed to a flywheel, much heavier, used with manual trans. If you have no flexplate, what turns the converter? imp

sorry wrong terminology - i meant separator plate, which there was/is.

trouble i am having is balancing the transmission on the trans jack. that nipple on the bottom of the pan really fouls things up. i am thinking of building a box to put on the top the jack. any suggestions?

 

[imp]

sorry wrong terminology - i meant separator plate, which there was/is.

trouble i am having is balancing the transmission on the trans jack. that nipple on the bottom of the pan really fouls things up. i am thinking of building a box to put on the top the jack. any suggestions?

@Harpua216

I'd make a square frame of something like 1X2 furring strips (wider if needed), to surround and support the trans. under the flange of the pan containing the bolts. The frame would need a flat support plate, maybe plywood, fastened to the top of the jack. Just a thought. imp

 

[Harpua216]

So thats what i was thinking of building today. We tried to 2x4 on the jack but the trans would still shift.

we are trying to line up the pins first, then get a bolt started on the bottom and sort have it show us where the trans needs to move to and its bot working very well. Do you have any general tips on how to get things lined up?

I have had this 3rd gen for less than a year and its made me curse more than the 1st & 2nd gens all together. If my wife didnt like this car so muchi would have rolled it off a cliff or junked it.

 

[imp]

So thats what i was thinking of building today. We tried to 2x4 on the jack but the trans would still shift.

we are trying to line up the pins first, then get a bolt started on the bottom and sort have it show us where the trans needs to move to and its bot working very well. Do you have any general tips on how to get things lined up?

I have had this 3rd gen for less than a year and its made me curse more than the 1st & 2nd gens all together. If my wife didnt like this car so muchi would have rolled it off a cliff or junked it.

@Harpua216

By now you're probably done, sorry I'm late. I know of no easy way to line up on the dowel pins, except to note that you have the angle of the trans. such that the clearance at top and bottom, to the engine block, is equal. IOW, parallel. Sometimes the aluminum box has corrosion it the holes making it quitter tight on the pins. If you just can't get it on them, a round rod wrapped with a bit of fine abrasive paper can be used to clean out the holes. Don't enlarge them, though. imp

 

[Harpua216]

no, we arent done, i wish. i didnt have time to work on it yesterday or much the day before. but friday we took it off the jack and had it almost situated. We did lower the car down a bit which helped but the nipple at the bottom of the pan and the darn plate keeps coming off the block when we were close. i am of the mind to RTV the plate to the block once and for all.

and a lift would basically solve all of my problems. i think. well most of them at least

 

[Harpua216]

built a platform for the transmission jack which keeps the trans level. Anyway it is such a pain in the neck aligning this trans to the block. I try to line it up to the guide pins on the sides but one little movement and that thing separates and the plate drops out of position are there any tips to make it easier to line up? man.

 

[imp]

@Harpua216
Are the dowels (pins) so short? Usually, there is about 1/2-inch of pin showing, enough to keep the plate from falling off. I see no reason, though, why a few small dabs of RTV placed between the plate and block surface would do any harm. I would put it right adjacent to the pins, so as to achieve maximum holding affect. Don't let it cure completely before assembling, though, as it might cause enough misalignment to result in problems with radial thrust on shafts.

Another trick often employed: Get some extra trans. to block bolts, long enough to have some unthreaded shank, cut the heads off, file smooth and square, and cut a screwdriver slot across the shank end. Use two hacksaw blades placed side by side on the saw frame. Put in two or three in the holes threaded in the block, and use them to "guide" and hold the trans. in proper location as you slide it forward on the bolts, get it "home", insert a couple regular bolts in unused holes unscrew your homemade studs, and finish up with the remaining bolts. Don't jiggle and shake too much, as converter can slide forward just enough to disengage from pump, a classic foul-up which happens often enough to guard against it. imp

 

[Harpua216]

This what we are going to end up doing, thanks for the tip. I think we will use ssome 3/4 bolts in the dowel pins as they are hallow. then while i hold the bottom of the transmission, my buddy will try and work on the top bolts while we line up and slide another 3/4 bolt on the bottom.

for anyone else doing this job and finding this thread. here is the platform we had to make for it. Honestly, i wouldnt try this without making this again as we wasted about 2 days of trying to line it up without it.

As for the plate Yes there is some room to balance it on the dowels but this transmission was already replaced with the wrong one and I am guessing they may have bent it very slightly that it causes it to waffle between the two dowels. I dont think it will be a big problem once when get the guide bolts in.

thanks. i was trying to explain it to my buddy while we were still cussing the thing at night and he wouldnt get it. i copied what you wrote and it made sense.

 

[Harpua216]

@imp man. i cannot get this thing lined up. i have bolts in the bottom, one in the dowel pin but i cannot get the trans on the top close enough the thread a bolt on it. even if i jack up the back of the trans. it feels like something is hitting or stopping it.

if even when we try to push it close, we cant get it to line up on top. any ideas? thought that it may be the bracket for the cooler lines but i took it off already.

 

[imp]

@JK080

if even when we try to push it close, we cant get it to line up on top. any ideas? thought that it may be the bracket for the cooler lines but i took it off already.

@Harpua216
Here's a thought just came to mind. These transmissions were used with both 4.0 and 4.6 engines. Possible the dowel spacing is not identical? Beg borrow or steal, if possible, a measuring caliper big enough to measure across the outside of the dowel pins, then the outside dimension of the holes in the trans. If not the same, you have a trans off the other engine.

@JK080 Are dowel location dimensions the same on both 4.0L and 4.6L engines? imp