Why I’m NOT running E85 in my 2020 Explorer ST

[Mbrooks420]

On older vehicles designed for 87, then yes. But if the vehicle is designed to run with 89 or even 91 octane it will adjust timing accordingly, you could even start knocking if you ran too low of an octane for the engine (though I think most manufacturers account for that). However it will take a while for the computer to re-adjust to a new octane so it may take 2 or 3 fill-ups before you notice a difference.

My Ram was rated for 89 but could do 87. Only time I ran 89 was if I was towing and there was a power difference and it was also not rated for E85.

I’m talking purely of power output. More power you squeeze out of an engine, by any means, adds wear to the entire rotating unit.

As a way overblown example, you could squeeze 500hp out of one of these. Or it could be tuned to run 250hp. The 500hp motor would have a drastically reduced lifespan.

 

[MrQ]

I’m talking purely of power output. More power you squeeze out of an engine, by any means, adds wear to the entire rotating unit.

As a way overblown example, you could squeeze 500hp out of one of these. Or it could be tuned to run 250hp. The 500hp motor would have a drastically reduced lifespan.

Not necessarily, there have been quite a few instances where a stock engine has been detuned, either for emissions or mpg, and is perfectly capable of making more power without adding significant extra wear to the engine. Now if we are talking about adding forced induction on a NA motor then yeah you are going to have some issues if you start cranking up the PSI. 3.5 ecos are already forced induction which means their internals have been strengthened to handle the extra boost; granted there is a point of no return and you could send a rod into space, but a conservative tune should not add any additional wear to such an engine. Most engines are designed to withstand higher forces than what they are rated at.

 

[mjlkwolfe@gmail.]

Agreed. Not all fuels have any ethanol, and many things actually require the use of entirely ethanol free fuels. Regular gas has a MAXIMUM of 10%, not at least.

There’s a huge difference between up to 10% and up to 83% Ethanol content. All vehicles are certainly not fine with E85.

Ethanol is also NOT carbon neutral. It *might* be if you didn’t have to expend ENORMOUS amounts of energy to produce it.

Well it is certainly apparent that the fossil fuels industry has done a good job of indoctrinating folks with incorrect data
I am a semi retired fuel systems engineer
We supply fuel system components to OEM's such Ford & GM
All components we supply them for E10-E15 engines or E85 engines are the same
An example is O-Rings
All O-Rings we supply are a fluoroelastomer material which is impervious to ethanol
E85 is no more corrosive than E10
It takes less energy to produce a gallon of ethanol that it does to refine a gallon of gasoline
The materials left from ethanol production make better feed stocks than the raw grains & are used for that purpose
All FLEX fuel engines typically produce 15% more torque & hp than they produce with 93 octane E10
Ask any OEM powertrain engineer & they will tell you that engine power density could be increased 30-40% if the engine was optimized for E85
Some interesting reading here

OPINION: Ethanol dominates in clean air contest | Ethanol Producer Magazine

The U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports that a sharp uptick in biofuel consumption is vital to holding temperature changes below 1.5 deg

www.ethanolproducer.com

Now automakers and regulators are looking at the next generation of fuel blends, which can power engines with higher compression ratios, delivering more miles from every gallon. Those advancements require higher-octane fuels, beyond the regular 87 common at most fueling stations.

Unsurprisingly, the study found that an increase of petroleum-based aromatics resulted in significantly higher emissions. Aromatics, like xylene and toluene, are additives used in fuel as octane boosters instead of ethanol.


In fact, it found that aromatics, not ethanol, play a dominate role in the formation of toxic emissions linked to cancer, as well as neurological, cardiovascular, and reproductive damage. It also found that aromatics drive the most significant increases in particulate emissions, which cause asthma and contribute to heart and lung disease.

At the same time, researchers found that ethanol plays a major role in reducing dangerous carbon monoxide emissions, an odorless gas that can cause sudden illness and lead to death. In part, that is because ethanol introduces additional oxygen to fuel mix, “leading to a more complete combustion,” noted the authors.

 

[Mbrooks420]

It’s funny how you skipped over a lot. Like the fact that not all gasoline has ethanol. Ethanol is great for power. No one is disputing that. It’s also terrible for efficiency.

 

[mjlkwolfe@gmail.]

It’s funny how you skipped over a lot. Like the fact that not all gasoline has ethanol. Ethanol is great for power. No one is disputing that. It’s also terrible for efficiency.

I have not seen any stations within 50 miles of where I live that offer E0
They all have E10
An engine optimized for ethanol will exceed the efficiency of A fossil fueled engine
That is a fact
I have my ST calibrated for E50 currently
E51 is readily available at a station about 20 miles form where I live
Previously I used a 93 octane calibration
Fuel mileage dropped less than 10% between the 2 calibrations
But power differences are phenomenal
Power density in an engine optimized for ethanol will be 30-35% higher than an engine optimized for 93 octane fossil fuel
Some other interesting information in the following link regarding future ethanol production

https://web.extension.illinois.edu/ethanol/cellulosic.cfm:dunno

:

 

[Livernois]

We've found like any EcoBoost vehicle that the Explorer ST's will run best on the higher octane fuels and Ford also suggest using premium right in their owners manuals as well. 87 octane is the bare minimum you can use with out risking engine damage or void warranties. The ECU targets 93 and then has to pull back power to adjust for lower octanes which causes a noticeable drop in timing and boost.

Far as E85 goes we have a great video demonstration of the tuning development here on our chassis dyno and show the differences in power levels between stock, 93 octane, E30, and E40 where fuel pressure became dangerously low in the middle of a dyno pull. So we offer tunes for all octanes 87-93 and also have an optional E30 tune for the more extreme customers looking to maximize power, but full E85 is not something you can run safely in these vehicles until we have the new Firestorm fuel system upgrades available for them such as high pressure fuel pumps, injectors, etc.

 

[mjlkwolfe@gmail.]

We've found like any EcoBoost vehicle that the Explorer ST's will run best on the higher octane fuels and Ford also suggest using premium right in their owners manuals as well. 87 octane is the bare minimum you can use with out risking engine damage or void warranties. The ECU targets 93 and then has to pull back power to adjust for lower octanes which causes a noticeable drop in timing and boost.

Far as E85 goes we have a great video demonstration of the tuning development here on our chassis dyno and show the differences in power levels between stock, 93 octane, E30, and E40 where fuel pressure became dangerously low in the middle of a dyno pull. So we offer tunes for all octanes 87-93 and also have an optional E30 tune for the more extreme customers looking to maximize power, but full E85 is not something you can run safely in these vehicles until we have the new Firestorm fuel system upgrades available for them such as high pressure fuel pumps, injectors, etc.

Good information
Thanks

 

[Livernois]

Good information
Thanks

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