Wont Start, Theft Light Flashing

[BrentW]

Ok.. I did some searching and found similar posts but mine has a small twist that I cant find an answer too. So if you have anything constructive to help me please let me know.

First, I drove the car up until Monday after work, Didnt start it at all on Tuesday and the temps here dropped down around freezing that day and ahve stayed there.

This morning I went to start it with my remote start and when I went out it wasnt running. I got in and it didnt start. Seems to have power to everything just nothing happens when you turn the key to where the starter should kick. And pushing the remote start sounds like it should, you hear the dinging in the car like it powered up, but again, no starter kicking and the solinoid isnt clicking like a dead battery. I hear one little tick like you would hear before the starter but nothing.

It has a aftermarket remote starter on it and it has been working fine, I dont know if that is the issue.

I also DO NOT have a transponder key for this vehicle. I have a normal Hillman H75-PH key for this vehicle and a keyfob remote. I assume this has something to do with the remote starter maybe bypassing PATS?? This is where I am confused. The theft light is flashing quickly and in this situation I would think putting the correct PATS key in would reset things, but I dont have one of those. I am going to have the battery tested later, I read somewhere that if the battery got weak this could happen, but I have my doubts because it has given me no indication that it has a battery issue. I did try un plugging the remote start box under the dash and that did nothing, I also pulled the battery cable off for 5 minutes or so and again, nothing.

Where do I go from here guys? This a 2002 4.0L 4 door 4x4 model with no frills. Just a base model. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Freaky1]

Try this.
Doors nlocked, driver's window open (just in case).
Key in on position for 22 -25 minutes without it being messed with (doors or anything).

If after this it will start and is not a pats key, time to look into the aftermarket wiring.

This is for NON transponder keys. While the same will work for pats keys, it will likely only last 2 to 5 miles and shut down again. This too is repairable, but a different job entirely.

Frank

 

[BrentW]

My key is definitely a non PATS key. Weird thing too. I got a second key with the vehicle that looks like a transponder key but it will only unlock the doors and work glove box and stuff. But it wont turn the ignition. My regular key works everything correctly. Typically a valet key will start the car but not unlock the glove box. Curious what this key is too. But since it wont even turn the ignition it is not much help on this issue.

 

[Freaky1]

Great. Let me know if it works.

If it doesn't, there's a couple more avenues to check. This one is just the most common and by far simplest.

Frank

PS.... forgot to mention, make sure there are NO pats keys on the ring in the ignition switch for this.

Same is true for l ats systms, only the one pats key that's in the ignition during the process, none else on key ring.

 

[lincolnshibuya]

Your PATS immobilizer and/or remote start here is the culprit. You cant start/crank the car using the non-PATS key but it will shut off quickly (theft light will blink rapidly).

Check your PATS immobilzer, if it's the universal one it should have the key (with the transponder chip) inside and you can use that to start the car temporarily by placing it near ignition cylinder, if the key is in 1 piece then use it simply to start. Normally keys are cut in case the car is broken in with this kind of bypass (but nothing can prevent it from being hotwired)

If it's the programmable one (PKALL/PKFM/XK05 or others) then your out of luck since it requires 2 keys with chip to re-program it.

Or it could be simply a missing ground or bad wiring.

 

[BrentW]

Ok.. Any idea where this immobilizer thing is at? I have a black box under the edge of the dash below the column that has two small wire plugs on it. Its not very big though and didn't like like something that was meant to be popped apart but definitely looks to be part of the remote start. I dont know the brand of this system off hand, I know it says a name on the remote itself, but that would confirm my suspicion that my key isnt a pats key because the remote start is bypassing it or overriding it. Now I just have to find that POS.

 

[lincolnshibuya]

start looking for a wire looped in your ignition cylinder and follow that wire, it should go a to small box (bypass) and that small box has a wire going to remote starter box. So you should at least see 2 boxes down there (normally they are secured by plastic ties).

 

[Freaky1]

Don't know if you tried the above or not, but if it worked, check your pats antenna. It's directly on the ignition cylinder housing.

 

[BrentW]

Have not gotten home yet. At work right now. As soon as I get home I am going to start trying some of these. Hopefully something here will get it fired up.

 

[BrentW]

Ok.. When I got home the damn thing started right up. Starts with my key and starts with the remote start. So now I just have to ask WTF?? I did verify that I do have a real transponder key that is not destroyed in any way inside the black box under the dash. So if I ever need a spare there is one in there. Nice to know. I have a buddy that works at a locksmith that can make me another one for $50 so i will probably do that soon so I can make more on my own. Tomorrow morning I am going to go out and start the car with the key and not use the remote start just to see if maybe it didnt like the cold this morning for some reason. Very odd deal though.

 

[Freaky1]

Glad to read it.
Just need to see if you can duplicate the concern.

 

[BrentW]

Yes because its hard to troubleshoot a starting problem when the thing actually starts. lol

 

[BrentW]

Ok.. So now its back to doing the same thing this morning. It almost has to be temperature related. It is 22 degrees out and my theft light is flashing. I did break open the box and get the transponder key out and it is keyed the same as the spare key I have. does not turn the ignition. So I held it right next to my regular key and still nothing. I dont think it is a transponder issue at all now. I really think it has something to do with the cold but why? or what? And yes the theft light is flashing fast again. I left the key in the ignition (with the pats key stuck through it) for about 15 minutes with the door locked and when i went out the theft light had stopped flashing but still nothing. It acts like it is in gear and not in park. I did try moving the shift selector around and tried to start in neutral and nothing so its not that it isnt making contact. I am at a loss. HELP!!!

 

[BrentW]

Update: I went back out and put the transponder key back in the black box and tucked it back under the dash and then got in and tried to turn the key a bunch of time. On about the 5th time I heard what I thought was the starter kick for a split second so I turned the key again and held it this time and it fired right up. Let it warm up then headed out. Had to stop for gas so I stopped and of course I pulled up to the pump on the wrong side (I do that a lot with this thing). Had already turned it off so I got in, it re fired immediately and i pulled to the correct side, turned off again and got gas, went in and got a warm drink, got back in the car and nothing again. I messed around with it for a few minutes and then decided to stick my hand under the dash and jiggle things while turning the key and just as I was starting to move the remote start box it started and I drove it to work and parked it. Will find out at 4pm if it decides to start in the warmer part of the day. I would say its the remote start box but if that is the case then why wouldnt it start with the transponder key right up there next to the ignition? I am even more confused now I think.

 

[Freaky1]

First off, congrats on a quick narrow down.

Second. I don't remember if you installed the remote start or had it done so please excuse. Depending on how it's hooked up, a loose connection at the remote box could well break the circuit fully.

 

[BrentW]

The remote start was on it when I got it. I bought it used an in need of some attention in several common areas like wheel bearings and other things. I got it for $1500 and didnt even know it had remote start till I found the remote and started pressing the button to see what it did. So I have no idea how long it has been on there. Its just weird that it has literally had zero starting issues until it got cold and now it is consistent.

 

[lincolnshibuya]

Universal bypass seems to have common issues when it's cold as they get older that's why most installers don't recommend them. Some will because they are really that cheap ($10 - $15) and gets bundled with some cheap remote starters.

Did you try using that key from the bypass to successfully start the car? I'd have the battery checked too, weird things happen when the battery is low. Also some remote starts cause battery drain.

 

[BrentW]

Universal bypass seems to have common issues when it's cold as they get older that's why most installers don't recommend them. Some will because they are really that cheap ($10 - $15) and gets bundled with some cheap remote starters.

Did you try using that key from the bypass to successfully start the car? I'd have the battery checked too, weird things happen when the battery is low. Also some remote starts cause battery drain.

The key inside the remote starter box has a different cut than the one I use to start the car. I assume they rey keyed the vehicle at some point. I did try to put it next to the column while turning my regular key and nothing happened.

 

[BrentW]

Another Update. Last night I pulled everything apart with the remote start and re crimped the butt connectors and made sure all of the plugs were tight and all that fun stuff and this morning it still didnt start. I kept turning the key repeatedly and jiggled wires and it finally started. I dont know if turning the key repeatedly did it or jiggling wires. I think I am going to try and figure out the manufacturer of the PATS bypass box and see if I can order another one before I do anything else and if that doesnt help I will just remove the system. Looks like a big mess to remove though.

 

[lincolnshibuya]

take the transponder key out from the box and tape it in your non-transponder key to start the car. I believe the PATS ring in the ignition cylinder is just picky where the chip is. keeping the chip very close and in the exact position where the key is rotating should make it work.

to make sure that the remote start is not interfering with your manual starting, keep the hood up (assuming there's a hood pin installed)