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Winch shopping? Comparison specs here:

Discussion in 'Offroad Accessories' started by Premier, April 25, 2007.

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    1. Premier

      Premier Explorer Addict

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      Here is some information I pulled from another website:

      If you start comparing apples to apple and look at comparably rated winches you'll find that the Warns have significantly higher line pull ratings once you get out to the 2nd and 3rd layers where you'll be using your winch the most. Winches are rated by the first layer line pull, but you have to leave about 1/2 this wrapped on the drum for safety. Plus, that's a lot of line you'd be spooling out. Most of the winching operations I've witnessed don't spool out the winch line that far and instead use layers 2-3.

      To give you an idea:

      Warn M8000 pull by layer
      1 / 8000 lb.
      2 / 7280 lb.
      3 / 6670 lb.
      4 / 6230 lb.

      Milemarker PE 8000 pull by layer
      1 / 8000 lb.
      2 / 6335 lb.
      3 / 5243 lb.
      4 / 4473 lb.
      5 / 3900 lb.

      So by the time you get to layers 2 and 3 the Milemarker winch is giving up about a 1/2 ton pulling advantage to the Warn. (and almost a full ton by layer 4)

      Not to mention the Warns are signifitantly faster. This isn't that big of a deal when you're winching under load. In those instances most winches go about the same speed. The big difference is the no-load line speed. When you are winding in a winch after an operation the Milemarkers are unbelievably slow whereas the Warns spool in the cable at a good clip. It may not seem like a big deal now but once you get a winch you'll find you use it frequently. If for no other reason than you're helping other people out. When you get done using your winch you just want to get rolling again, not wait for it to spool in left over winch cable.

      Personally, I think the Warns are worth the price they command. When you start looking at all the other ancilary things and digging into some of the technical data they come out on top. Not to mention Warn plan out their winch line so they can support them for the long haul, even decades after a particular line has been discontinued.


      --------------------------------------------------------

      The reference for the pull data for the Warn / Milemarker comparison. I got the information straight off of the respective company websites.

      When you start to compare the various winch specs the Warns nearly always are on top by a substantial margin. Ramsey is closer than the Milemarker to the Warn and the T-Max line closer yet, but it's still no contest.

      Here's some more data to look at, I'll list the sources this time. The top list are the 8000 lb. winches and the bottom are the 9500 lb. winches. I tired to find comparable winches as best I could:

      8000 lb. WINCHES

      T-Max EW-8500 (company website)
      Motor Rating = 5.5 hp

      Line Speed No-load = 37.2 ft/min
      Line Speed Full-load = 7.2 ft/min

      Line Pull by Layer
      1 / 8500 lb.
      2 / 6900 lb.
      3 / 5845 lb.
      4 / 5100 lb.


      Ramsey REP 8000 (company website)
      Motor Rating = 3.8 hp

      Line Speed No-load = 36 ft/min
      Line Speed Full-load = 5 ft/min

      Line Pull by Layer
      1 / 8000 lb.
      2 / 6500 lb.
      3 / 5500 lb.
      4 / 4800 lb.


      Milemarker PE 8000 (company website)
      Motor Rating = 4.1 hp

      Line Speed No-Load = 13 ft/min
      Line Speed Full-load = 5 ft/min

      Line Pull by Layer
      1 / 8000 lb.
      2 / 6335 lb.
      3 / 5243 lb.
      4 / 4473 lb.
      5 / 3900 lb.


      Warn M8000 (company website)
      Motor Rating = 4.8 hp

      Line Speed No-load = 42 ft/min
      Line Speed Full-load = 8 ft/min

      Line Pull by Layer
      1 / 8000 lb.
      2 / 7280 lb.
      3 / 6670 lb.
      4 / 6230 lb.

      The T-Max line fared better than I would have expected in this line up. I tried to get data for the Superwinch but they wouldn't breakdown their information according to line pull by layer so I didn't include any of their data. Looking "just" at the rated winch capacity of the first layer which is what everybody advertised they all look comparable. But when you look more closely at the line speeds and the load ratings on the 2nd and 3rd layers (where you're more likely to use the winch) the Warn handily out pulls the competition. Again, the T-max came closest but it was still no contest.

      This theme was consistent when looking at the larger 9,500 lb. winches.




      9500 lb. WINCHES

      T-Max EW-9500 (company website)
      Motor Rating = 5.5 hp

      Line Speed No-Load = 29.5 ft/min
      Line Speed Full-Load = 7.2 ft/min

      1 / 9500 lb.
      2 / 7700 lb.
      3 / 6500 lb.
      4 / 5700 lb.


      Ramsey Patriot 9500 (company website)
      Motor Rating = 5.5 hp

      Line Speed No-load = 35.4 ft/min
      Line Speed Full-load = 7.8 ft/min

      1 / 9500 lb.
      2 / 7780 lb.
      3 / 6600 lb.
      4 / 5725 lb.
      5 / 5050 lb.


      Milemarker SE9500 (company website)
      Motor Rating = 4.6 hp

      Line Speed No-load = 23 ft/min
      Line Speed @ 8000 lb. = 6.5 ft/min (no published rating for full load)

      1 / 9500 lb.
      2 / 7500 lb.
      3 / 6200 lb.
      4 / 5300 lb.


      Warn 9.5xp
      Motor Rating = 6hp

      Line Speed No-load = 38 ft/min
      Line Speed Full-load = 7.6 ft/min

      1 / 9500 lb.
      2 / 8650 lb.
      3 / 7920 lb.
      4 / 7400 lb.
      5 / 6940 lb.

      Wow! Even I'm a little surprised at these results. Again, while they are all rated the same for the first layer, by the 2nd layer the Warn is out pulling it's closest rival by nearly a 1/2 ton, right off the bat. By Layer three it has almost a 3/4 ton pulling advantage over most of the winches.

      And if anybody wanted to compare layer 4, Warn is out pulling a similarly rated Milemarker by over 2000 lb. and well over 3/4 ton compared to the other winches.

      Not to mention the fact that when Warn developed their new winch line they upgrated the electronics, sealing, new generation of motor, more durable finish, etc.
       
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    3. Rick

      Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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      Thanks for putting this together for us:thumbsup: I'm adding it to our list of useful threads.
       
    4. AERBROCONVIL

      AERBROCONVIL New Member

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      The difference is the motors.

      One is series wound, the other is permanent magnet.

      good series wound are worth the extra money.

      I use a PM winch every day. And I hate it. It works, but it is slow. I was dumb and new to winches. not any more.

      Warn is worth the money, or go HYDRAULIC..
       
    5. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      very helpful, I am looking at a MM PE8000 Hydraulic would be cool too, but the engine must be running for that... usually it is, but not always!
       
    6. Premier

      Premier Explorer Addict

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      what amp alternator is necessary to run a winch? would 180 work, or 200+ be better?
       
    7. FROADER

      FROADER Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    8. Premier

      Premier Explorer Addict

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      do you have a dual battery setup?
       
    9. FROADER

      FROADER Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Nope, and I only run 4 little (rock) lights at night.
       
    10. Nedwreck

      Nedwreck Active Member

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      Volts x Amps = Watts

      1 horsepower = 743 watts (I'm going to use 750 for the math...)

      biggest motor listed above that I saw was 6.0HP (Warn 9.5xp)

      750 x 6 = 4500 watts
      4500 (watts) / 12 (volts) = 375 Amps

      375 amps would be a full load at 100% duty cycle. A light load will use less obviously.

      So, on one hand yes, it would take a lot of Alternator to turn this puppy... but then that's what the battery is for... theory would have it that a 375cca battery could handle it. I run a 850cca battery, so a stock alternator wouldn't scare me one bit unless I'm pulling a huge load for a very long time - without the motor running (needs to be able to start my rig when I'm done, yes?). Motor running I'm thinking that a 100 amp alternator will recharge the used energy at a ratio of (very) roughly of 3:1 ... use the winch ~at FULL LOAD~ for 1 minute, three minutes later the battery is full up on charge once again. I say 3:1 because the running engine will contribute energy while using the winch, reducing the energy consumed from the battery.

      Wonder if it works this way in the real world? (In other words - Your Mileage Will Vary! these are very generalized figures!)
       
    11. 90ranajo

      90ranajo The Little TJ that could

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      By that math you would only be pulling about 7000#. At a full load of 9000# the Warn 9.5xp pulls 480 amps at 12 volts.

       
    12. Stic-o

      Stic-o Elite Movie Star Elite Explorer

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      I'm running a 10,000lbs Summit winch. which is really a EW-10000HD T-maxx winch (Specs) with summit stickers;) and a lot cheaper!!!

      [​IMG]
       
    13. Nedwreck

      Nedwreck Active Member

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      Good deal on the info... I just ran some numbers based on standard electrical formulas, which don't take into account electrical losses or mechanical drag. Something for folks to chew on, that aren't familiar with that type of stuff.

      Anybody else have real world amp draw numbers for their winches?

      :salute:
       
    14. Damonkr

      Damonkr Member

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      I am in the market for a winch currently and have been mostly looking a the warn winches. I have owned two of them plus a koening PTO on my cj jeep. I know that in the past a warn was basically your only option for reliability but with tech advances and im sure they are not the only ones who can buid a good winch. How do you like your summit winch? How long have you had it? what kind of pulling do you do with it. And what guage wire are you feeding it with? Any info will help. thanks in advance.
       
    15. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      I have the 9k version of the Summit/T-max winch and it has not quit on me yet.
      I'm using a 3/8" synthetic rope on it.
      [​IMG]

      My brother recently put the yellow 6.5k Competition T-max on his Samurai.
      He's using a 5/16" synthetic rope (Samurai weighs about half of what an Explorer weighs)
       
    16. Damonkr

      Damonkr Member

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      Thanks I have a ranger which im sure is slightly lighter than an x ill look into the summit. in the 9k version. Did you buy your rope separatly and from where if so?
       
    17. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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    18. BenS

      BenS Golden Monkey Addict

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      I thought I'd update this thread with a very inexpensive winch which is marketed by Smittybilt (www.smittybilt.com) yet is basically a T-Max winch. The winch is the XRC8 and typically retails for around $299. I just bought one of these from Amazon and will be installing it as soon as I finish my bumper/winch mount. The packaging, components, and fit/finish are well done for the price point. The controller even has lights to show in/out. Here are its specs:

      XRC 8 Specifications

      Rated Line Pull: 8000Lbs (3600kgs) single-line
      Motor: 5.5hp Series Wound
      Gear Ratio: 172.8:1
      Wire Rope: 94' 21/64" diameter (28.5m, 8.2mm Diameter)
      Fairlead: 4-Way Roller
      Recommended Battery: 650CCA
      Weight: 94.0 Lbs (42.5Kgs)
      Mounting Bolt Pattern: 10" x 4.5"

      Line speed (feet per minute):
      37.2 (no load)
      18 (2000)
      13.1 (4000)
      10.2 (6000)
      8.2 (8000)

      Line pull capacity by layer:
      1 8000
      2 6900
      3 5850
      4 5100
       
    19. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      Okay I am about to pull the trigger (or I guess push the button LOL) on a 9000# winch for the wife's 07 FJ cruiser


      I am looking at this winch from Summit:

      http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-930002/

      can you please confirm this is a TMAX winch in summit stickers?

      I have been researching winches for a year now, Warns still command a high price, the FJ is a heavy SOB, she wont use her winch much because the FJ is not our main trail rig but when she does need it I want it to be there...
       
    20. Brian1

      Brian1 Elite Explorer

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      Looks exactly like my Tmax. You could call them and ask, I heard they will tell you the manufacturer of their private labels. I love my Tmax, it works well and gets used just about every trip out. Only issue I had was the remote switch broke and I had to get a new switch at my local electronic parts store and swapped it into the remote.

      Summit 10% off: WSCS11 till 12/22 :thumbsup:

      I will update that, alot of pic links are broken. I still like my choice in winch rope
       
    21. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      Pulled the trigger! thanks guys!! 9000# winch on the way with 10% discount code, ground shipping $425!!!! cannot beat that deal!!!!!!!!
       
    22. cmhaah06

      cmhaah06 Active Member

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      XRC Smittybuit

      Anybody try the XRC Smittybuilt winches? I am thinking about using the #8000lbs winch for $299. Any pros/cons?
       
    23. BenS

      BenS Golden Monkey Addict

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    24. Foxracin

      Foxracin Well-Known Member

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      I have the Smittybilt and have used it a lot. It has never missed a beat. Always got me out or whatever I was doing. Would definitely recommend it to anyone.
       
    25. Zenshu

      Zenshu New Member

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      So I am guessing that the xrc8 is plenty of winch for the ex? I just won one in a raffle and since mile marker control boxes are cheaply made and keep breaking, I am thinking of replacing my 9000# mile marker with the 8000# smittybuilt since the control box seems more sturdy at least.
       
    26. BenS

      BenS Golden Monkey Addict

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      I've used my xrc8 many times now and it has worked great every time. I've used it to pull out ex's, jeeps, and a land rover.
       

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